P/S Pump is Done

*maxitech* · 10-28-2009, 09:33 AM

Well, my P/S pump has been noisy for awhile, and was starting to show signs of failure right when I would cold start the car.

Last night is started making an AWFUL noise while idling and started to crap out while I was driving it. Guess it's time to change it...Freakin' OEM junk, only lasted me 16 years and 186K miles...

Ever since I replaced the timing belt almost a year ago the replacement tensioner (aftermarket) has been whiny, too. I suppose while I am in there I will replace it with an OEM unit (only 3 times the price!)...

Just thought I'd share...particularly because the money I will now have to use to buy a pump / tensioner is money I was going to spend to have the exterior of the Corvette detailed...

*CapedCadaver* · 10-28-2009, 10:34 AM

j00needapump? i has a pump.

**Matt93SE** · 10-28-2009, 10:51 AM

Joo don't need no power steering mang. just drain the fluid from the lines and loop the pressure in back into the low press out on the rack. drive it like that. I did that on the 240 and it's been fine. then again, you gotta still drive the water pump off that same belt and I don't know if you can find a belt the right size.

PS pumps aren't that expensive.. before you replace it, check and make sure it's full of fluid.. and make sure you're using ATF in the system and not power steering fluid..

*mrkanda* · 10-28-2009, 11:49 AM

What about rebuilding the oem one?

*CapedCadaver* · 10-28-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

Joo don't need no power steering mang. just drain the fluid from the lines and loop the pressure in back into the low press out on the rack. drive it like that. I did that on the 240 and it's been fine. then again, you gotta still drive the water pump off that same belt and I don't know if you can find a belt the right size.

PS pumps aren't that expensive.. before you replace it, check and make sure it's full of fluid.. and make sure you're using ATF in the system and not power steering fluid..

eh... maybe not on RWD (unless it had a crapload of caster) but i would always want power steering on FWD.

also how would you tighten the belt if you deleted the PS pump? maybe a multi-groove z31 water pump pulley would work and run it off the alternator belt instead

but i can't say for sure if that would work

*maxitech* · 10-28-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

before you replace it, check and make sure it's full of fluid.. and make sure you're using ATF in the system and not power steering fluid..

C'mon, Matt...Do you really think this little of me?

BTW, were you at LeMons this past weekend?

***Jeff92se*** · 10-28-2009, 12:29 PM

You could probably get away with an used one if you could verify it was running okay before. PS pumps don't go out that often as long as they have fluid. It's more the high pressure side hose that craps out.

*maxitech* · 10-28-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff92se

You could probably get away with an used one if you could verify it was running okay before. PS pumps don't go out that often as long as they have fluid. It's more the high pressure side hose that craps out.

I replaced the high pressure hose about a month ago, there are no leaks in the system. Besides, I hate having a whiny pump and it is (relatively) inexpensive to replace it with a new one.

It won't be that big of a deal to replace...

**Matt93SE** · 10-28-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

eh... maybe not on RWD (unless it had a crapload of caster) but i would always want power steering on FWD.

also how would you tighten the belt if you deleted the PS pump? maybe a multi-groove z31 water pump pulley would work and run it off the alternator belt instead

but i can't say for sure if that would work

when the PS pump died on my 240, I was on the track headed into a corner at about 90mph. I damn near killed myself because I couldn't turn the wheel at all. I was fortunately able to get slowed down enough and it took all my strength to fight the car around the track and back into the pits. Since I'd just paid $350 for a day of track time, I wasn't about to go home without trying. I dumped all the fluid out of the rack and did this with the water pump belt:

Car is surprisingly drivable and I've run several track events like that. just drain the ps fluid and go.
yeah, it would be better to run a true manual rack, but I'm a cheapass and will run this rack until it fails, then go to a manual rack. (It's a race car, not a DD so I'm not too worried)

*CapedCadaver* · 10-28-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

j00needapump? i has a pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxitech

I replaced the high pressure hose about a month ago, there are no leaks in the system. Besides, I hate having a whiny pump and it is (relatively) inexpensive to replace it with a new one.

It won't be that big of a deal to replace...

i was serious btw. i have a pump from the 89se that i'm parting out, already pulled off the car, and sitting on a shelf. lmk if you want it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

when the PS pump died on my 240, I was on the track headed into a corner at about 90mph. I damn near killed myself because I couldn't turn the wheel at all. I was fortunately able to get slowed down enough and it took all my strength to fight the car around the track and back into the pits. Since I'd just paid $350 for a day of track time, I wasn't about to go home without trying. I dumped all the fluid out of the rack and did this with the water pump belt:

Car is surprisingly drivable and I've run several track events like that. just drain the ps fluid and go.
yeah, it would be better to run a true manual rack, but I'm a cheapass and will run this rack until it fails, then go to a manual rack. (It's a race car, not a DD so I'm not too worried)

so have your arm muscles just gotten better between then and now? to go from "took all my strength to fight the car around the track" to "surprisingly drivable"? I know having a stiff clutch will make your left leg stronger than your right... my brother's 6th gen has a MASSIVELY stiff clutch, and he almost murdered my civic's rather soft clutch pedal when i let him drive it

*maxitech* · 10-28-2009, 02:29 PM

I appreciate the offer, Caped, but I have never been a fan of putting used moving / mechanical parts on my car...If I am going to take the time to perform the labor, I want it to last as long as possible.

**Matt93SE** · 10-28-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

i was serious btw. i have a pump from the 89se that i'm parting out, already pulled off the car, and sitting on a shelf. lmk if you want it.

so have your arm muscles just gotten better between then and now? to go from "took all my strength to fight the car around the track" to "surprisingly drivable"? I know having a stiff clutch will make your left leg stronger than your right... my brother's 6th gen has a MASSIVELY stiff clutch, and he almost murdered my civic's rather soft clutch pedal when i let him drive it

The big issue is draining the fluid from the rack. There's several small orifices that you have to force the fluid through to make it push the rack back and forth. fluids don't compress. gases do. Easily. thus, drain the rack from fluid and then loop the hoses back together to keep the dirt out of it and you don't have the ATF to force through the system like you did before. That's the biggest issue.

*CapedCadaver* · 10-28-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

The big issue is draining the fluid from the rack. There's several small orifices that you have to force the fluid through to make it push the rack back and forth. fluids don't compress. gases do. Easily. thus, drain the rack from fluid and then loop the hoses back together to keep the dirt out of it and you don't have the ATF to force through the system like you did before. That's the biggest issue.

oic. cuz right before I parked my max, it kept cutting power randomly, and would occasionally stall out when i would push the clutch in while making a slow turn... first indication that it stalled was always the "OH CRAP!!!" when i couldn't steer the car anymore. course the easy way to fix that was to just dump the clutch and 2nd gear to re-fire the engine, but the first time it happened it scared me, cuz i didn't hear the engine stall due to my stereo playing. i almost wonder what it would be like to drive the car with a manual rack or otherwise no p/s like you do... but the z is right about to get a brand new rack and i don't wanna screw with it.

*internetautomar* · 10-29-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

The big issue is draining the fluid from the rack. There's several small orifices that you have to force the fluid through to make it push the rack back and forth. fluids don't compress. gases do. Easily. thus, drain the rack from fluid and then loop the hoses back together to keep the dirt out of it and you don't have the ATF to force through the system like you did before. That's the biggest issue.

I thought you had to keep fluid in the rack so that it stays lubricated and keeps turning. that is why the lines are looped rather than plugged. At least that is what I thought.
I could always ask the rack rebuilder.

**Matt93SE** · 10-29-2009, 09:16 PM

If I tore the rack apart and removed the orifices and hydraulic "stuff" inside it, I could fill it with fluid and it would be fine.

The reason I looped the lines was to keep dirt out and let the air flow through the system vs. fluid.

I have another rack at the house that I'm going to rebuild and remove the hydraulic guts so it's just the rack and pinion itself. this one I don't care about and don't have time to deal with so I'll just keep driving till it starts having problems. it won't just lock up and stop working, so it's not like I'm going to have a major failure and drive straight off the end of the track. it will just slowly get stiffer and/or develop some play and get harder to drive.. then I'll swap it. then again, I have a buddy that races an S13 and he's had his rack like this for about 5 years with no issues. not worried.

**Matt93SE** · 10-29-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

oic. cuz right before I parked my max, it kept cutting power randomly, and would occasionally stall out when i would push the clutch in while making a slow turn... first indication that it stalled was always the "OH CRAP!!!" when i couldn't steer the car anymore. course the easy way to fix that was to just dump the clutch and 2nd gear to re-fire the engine, but the first time it happened it scared me, cuz i didn't hear the engine stall due to my stereo playing. i almost wonder what it would be like to drive the car with a manual rack or otherwise no p/s like you do... but the z is right about to get a brand new rack and i don't wanna screw with it.

Yup. there's two fixes for that.
1. don't stomp on the clutch.. leave the car in gear and your foot off the gas. you can even brake the engine down to about 4-500rpm to make a turn and then let it idle back up. jsut don't do that in heavy traffic, as lugging the engine will cause rod bearings to get eaten up from the high loads and low oil pressure.
2. fix the idle problem.

But yeah.. my car did/does the exact same thing. I think the IACV can't flow enough air at idle because of my ported heads.. it idled perfectly before the engine rebuild. now the damn thing won't idle right, but the IACV is clean and works perfectly according to CONSULT. we can enable/disable it through the ECU with CONSULT and make it idle up/down/etc... but soon as I turn the A/C on, and start tryign to suck more air into the engine at idle, it stalls out on me. grrr

*CapedCadaver* · 10-29-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

Yup. there's two fixes for that.
1. don't stomp on the clutch.. leave the car in gear and your foot off the gas. you can even brake the engine down to about 4-500rpm to make a turn and then let it idle back up. jsut don't do that in heavy traffic, as lugging the engine will cause rod bearings to get eaten up from the high loads and low oil pressure.
2. fix the idle problem.

But yeah.. my car did/does the exact same thing. I think the IACV can't flow enough air at idle because of my ported heads.. it idled perfectly before the engine rebuild. now the damn thing won't idle right, but the IACV is clean and works perfectly according to CONSULT. we can enable/disable it through the ECU with CONSULT and make it idle up/down/etc... but soon as I turn the A/C on, and start tryign to suck more air into the engine at idle, it stalls out on me. grrr

well the reason i was doing it that was so i could re-accelerate quicker by moving the shifter into 2nd mid-turn instead of post-turn. ideally i would have it in 2nd gear before slowing down at all, but that wasn't always possible. that and i had cheap tranny fluid in there so it didn't like doing big multi-gear 4000rpm downshifts like that.

i ended up fixing it tho (loose wire connection needed to be re-crimped). about a week before my suspension bushings unseated themselves

Cravacor · 10-31-2009, 10:36 PM

Dang! I didn't know about the ATF deal. I have a slow leak somewhere and have been refilling with PS fluid...

CMax03 · 11-01-2009, 09:00 AM

I would install another pump Maxitech, this isn't light like a 240SX and there is no manual steering rack offered for a Maxima....So I'd leave it Oem unless you like working out and driving at the same time! Cause you probably get a hernia trying to park that beast without any p/s! I have manual steering in my little D21 HB pickup and the few times I've I let friends borrow the truck. They've always commented on that's why your arms are in good shape...your truck has no p/s!!! That was a freakin work out! But I'm used to it, 335,000 miles and I had it since 1988....LOL!

*maxitech* · 11-04-2009, 01:27 PM

I'm sure I will get around to replacing it when I get back to town...Away on business ATM...