Replacing fuel injectors

Cinnamint · 02-25-2009, 06:13 PM

So I hoped it would never happen to me, but I think an injector got stuck open. So last friday I was heading to the gas station and gunned it at a light. The car suddenly started running rough. I figured it was just running out of gas. I filled up and started her up and was doing the same thing. Well I took it home and been cleaning corroded connectors and plugs hoping to fix it. No improvement. Today I started her up and revved it up a bit then pulled the spark plugs. Cylinder 3 it wet with fuel. Unplug the injector and repeat, still wet.

My question is: Is there anyway to un-stick the injector or do I replace it?
I know not to buy remanufactured injector(heard the horror stories), but what brand should I get? I know internet auto supply has Oem($115) and aftermarket($66). Does it matter that much?

*CapedCadaver* · 02-25-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamint

So I hoped it would never happen to me, but I think an injector got stuck open. So last friday I was heading to the gas station and gunned it at a light. The car suddenly started running rough. I figured it was just running out of gas. I filled up and started her up and was doing the same thing. Well I took it home and been cleaning corroded connectors and plugs hoping to fix it. No improvement. Today I started her up and revved it up a bit then pulled the spark plugs. Cylinder 3 it wet with fuel. Unplug the injector and repeat, still wet.

My question is: Is there anyway to un-stick the injector or do I replace it?
I know not to buy remanufactured injector(heard the horror stories), but what brand should I get? I know internet auto supply has Oem($115) and aftermarket($66). Does it matter that much?

if you're sure you are getting spark on that cylinder, and if you aren't leaking past the o-ring, check the ohm resistance of the injector... if it's less than 10, or higher than 14, you probably just gotta replace that one. that aftermarket one only showed up for 89... all the 89-92 VG injectors are the same, but only the $115 one was listed for the 90. I'll let brian tell you what the deal is with that particular $66 one. excluding that, the order of preference is:
new OEM ($115 or whatever) -> OEM pulled from a running parts car -> JY oem injector -> reman

**Greeny** · 02-25-2009, 06:19 PM

Hmmm...3rd gen injectors usually don't stick open, they usually stick closed..

Have you ever replaced any of the injectors in this car?

How about tune up? (plug wires/plugs/etc.)

Did you ohm test the suspect injector??

you may have a bad plug or plug wire on that cylinder.

*internetautomar* · 02-25-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

if you're sure you are getting spark on that cylinder, and if you aren't leaking past the o-ring, check the ohm resistance of the injector... if it's less than 10, or higher than 14, you probably just gotta replace that one. that aftermarket one only showed up for 89... all the 89-92 VG injectors are the same, but only the $115 one was listed for the 90. I'll let brian tell you what the deal is with that particular $66 one. excluding that, the order of preference is:
new OEM ($115 or whatever) -> OEM pulled from a running parts car -> JY oem injector -> reman

To answer the question on the aftermarket, it is a Standard brand box. I haven't added it to everywhere it needs to be in the catalog yet. I will sell it until someone has an issue with it. when/if that happens I will do my normal response of pulling it down off the catalog as I do not sell parts that don't work right.
Standard has not been an issue in the past, but most of the time it is bosch in the box anyhow.
There was/is a company that made those early VG injectors "new" but they were worse than any reman out there, I sold 1 set of them, got them back as defects along with a replacement set. Ended up upgrading to the Bosch OEM injector and problem was solved. I will never sell that brand again, after the first bad set I pulled them from my catalog.

oh, and the price was wrong on them

Cinnamint · 02-25-2009, 07:24 PM

wow it just went up $40. I guess I shouldn't have said anything. What brand were the POS new injectors?

I will ohm it in the morning.
I have not replaced any injectors yet.
I've had the car about a year, bought it with 114k miles on in.

*internetautomar* · 02-25-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamint

wow it just went up $40. I guess I shouldn't have said anything. What brand were the POS new injectors?

I will ohm it in the morning.
I have not replaced any injectors yet.
I've had the car about a year, bought it with 114k miles on in.

the brand is irrelevant. you can search on here as I have mentioned it before.
the price on both bumped because parts pricing fluctuates constantly, which drives me nuts because I never know when it will change and that makes keeping my sites pricing up to date very hard. which is another part of the reason that I have the normal "Prices subject to change without notice" up there as well

*CapedCadaver* · 02-25-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamint

wow it just went up $40. I guess I shouldn't have said anything. What brand were the POS new injectors?

I will ohm it in the morning.
I have not replaced any injectors yet.
I've had the car about a year, bought it with 114k miles on in.

too bad you didn't know for sure whether or not the injector on your car is dead! you could have bought that ish before he changed it.... for some reason that was terribly amusing to me

**Greeny** · 02-25-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

so your car basically doesn't run worth crap, does it? 0 ohms or 'no connection' btw? Does it actually take a reading of 0 ohms or does the reading just indicate an open circuit?

Both my dead vg injectors measured 0 ohms= broken coil= dead dead dead...

*CapedCadaver* · 02-25-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeny

Both my dead vg injectors measured 0 ohms= broken coil= dead dead dead...

0 ohms isn't a broken coil, it's a shorted coil. an open coil would read the same as when the probes aren't touching anything (my screen just says "1" on the left side... actual measurements are on the right side of the screen).. 0.0 ohms would be like touching the 2 tips of the multimeter together... so electricity would pass through the coil, just that somehow the path of resistance was GREALY shortened. If my camera didn't have a dead battery i'd show you.

o and don't do that thing that you do

i know how you are

**Greeny** · 02-25-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

0 ohms isn't a broken coil, it's a shorted coil. an open coil would read the same as when the probes aren't touching anything (my screen just says "1" on the left side... actual measurements are on the right side of the screen).. 0.0 ohms would be like touching the 2 tips of the multimeter together... so electricity would pass through the coil, just that somehow the path of resistance was GREALY shortened. If my camera didn't have a dead battery i'd show you.

o and don't do that thing that you do

i know how you are

OoOooOoHHh!! Excuse meee.... it's shorted..

.... still broken, right??

Or can you just fix it???

*CapedCadaver* · 02-25-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeny

OoOooOoHHh!! Excuse meee.... it's shorted..

.... still broken, right??

Or can you just fix it???

ntrly.. just doing some classic "omg someone was WRONG on teh internetz" policing.

*internetautomar* · 02-26-2009, 08:41 AM

0 ohms = no resistance, same as touching the 2 probes to one another
infinite resistance is the same as holding the probes 1" apart , absolutely no connection.

**Greeny** · 02-26-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by internetautomar

0 ohms = no resistance, same as touching the 2 probes to one another
infinite resistance is the same as holding the probes 1" apart , absolutely no connection.

= a broke injector..

*internetautomar* · 02-26-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeny

= a broke injector..

or faulty test

**Greeny** · 02-26-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by internetautomar

or faulty test

= a stupid person that just needs to take his car to a mechanic..

biggz2332 · 02-26-2009, 09:36 AM

It's funny cause my car is doing sort of the same thing but its my number 2 cylinder injector im just to lazy to take my intake manifold off to change one injector

*CapedCadaver* · 02-26-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggz2332

It's funny cause my car is doing sort of the same thing but its my number 2 cylinder injector im just to lazy to take my intake manifold off to change one injector

fly me to CT and i'll do it

cuz i sure as heck ain't driving to CT this time of year.

Cinnamint · 02-26-2009, 08:44 PM

So I pulled everything apart and lifted out the injectors and rails. I turn the key to"run" so the pump builds pressure, and nothing leaks. Am I doing it wrong?

*CapedCadaver* · 02-26-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamint

So I pulled everything apart and lifted out the injectors and rails. I turn the key to"run" so the pump builds pressure, and nothing leaks. Am I doing it wrong?

hmm.. well if you know what you're doing, you can take a spare distributor, if you have one, and spin it over with the key in ON to pretend like the engine is running, and visually inspect the firing strength of the injectors. but you have to be really careful in how you ground the distributor, or this might be the last post you ever read on the Org....

Cinnamint · 02-26-2009, 10:22 PM

I actually have a spare, I just parted out a 89 SE. I will try that one in the morning.

biggz2332 · 02-27-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

fly me to CT and i'll do it

cuz i sure as heck ain't driving to CT this time of year.

me flying you a cost more than bringing it to the shop and i meant to say i was the 5th cylinder

*CapedCadaver* · 02-27-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggz2332

me flying you a cost more than bringing it to the shop and i meant to say i was the 5th cylinder

heh i was just kidding dude. i wouldn't mind driving, if my car were running OK.. but i'm on 4cyl right now.. guess what.. injectors. got some coming next week to get her back on all 6. my MPG went from 30hwy to 23hwy just from one dead injector... prolly worse on 2 dead.

biggz2332 · 02-27-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

heh i was just kidding dude. i wouldn't mind driving, if my car were running OK.. but i'm on 4cyl right now.. guess what.. injectors. got some coming next week to get her back on all 6. my MPG went from 30hwy to 23hwy just from one dead injector... prolly worse on 2 dead.

losing compression to or car just running ****ty?

*CapedCadaver* · 02-27-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggz2332

losing compression to or car just running ****ty?

i never checked compression, but the reason you get bad MPG whem misfiring is that the 02 sensor interprets the dead cylinder (which is just pushing fresh air) as a lean condition for the whole engine, so it says "lean?! oh crap.. let's add more fuel to compensate" and in reality you end up running really rich, which wastes gas. then when you're on 4cyl (#1 and #4 dead, for me) the car is just abysmally slow. Like... I could floor it in 1st gear after launching, and it would rev as though you were in 2nd, not 1st.

biggz2332 · 02-27-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

i never checked compression, but the reason you get bad MPG whem misfiring is that the 02 sensor interprets the dead cylinder (which is just pushing fresh air) as a lean condition for the whole engine, so it says "lean?! oh crap.. let's add more fuel to compensate" and in reality you end up running really rich, which wastes gas. then when you're on 4cyl (#1 and #4 dead, for me) the car is just abysmally slow. Like... I could floor it in 1st gear after launching, and it would rev as though you were in 2nd, not 1st.

O i c what your sayin so out maxima's have the injectors that give each cylinder fuel

*CapedCadaver* · 02-27-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggz2332

O i c what your sayin so out maxima's have the injectors that give each cylinder fuel

yea, one injector per cylinder (multiport fuel injection) unlike Greeny's truck, which has one BIG injector that supplies fuel to all cylinders (throttle body injection). so i have 2 cylinders that aren't firing, because they aren't getting fuel.

**Greeny** · 02-27-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

yea, one injector per cylinder (multiport fuel injection) unlike Greeny's truck, which has 2 BIG injectors that supplies fuel to all cylinders (throttle body injection). so i have 2 cylinders that aren't firing, because they aren't getting fuel.

Lemme fix that for you...

biggz2332 · 03-03-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

yea, one injector per cylinder (multiport fuel injection) unlike Greeny's truck, which has one BIG injector that supplies fuel to all cylinders (throttle body injection). so i have 2 cylinders that aren't firing, because they aren't getting fuel.

so does your car have that little blup,blup,blup hesitation everytime its ready to shift

*CapedCadaver* · 03-03-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggz2332

so does your car have that little blup,blup,blup hesitation everytime its ready to shift

well my car's a m/t, so i decide when it's time to shift.... but essentially, my car just runs like sh*t all the time.... it vibrates violently, makes no power at all, and the exhaust note sounds sickly...... of course i know what the problem is.. just waiting for the injectors i bought to get here so i can put the in.

plaman88 · 03-03-2009, 12:27 PM

What size are those allen bolts to pull the intake manifold off the VG30?

**Greeny** · 03-03-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plaman88

What size are those allen bolts to pull the intake manifold off the VG30?

6mm

*mrkanda* · 03-04-2009, 06:25 AM

So, I have the same problem as some of you on here. Two of my injectors are not firing. I just did a full tune-up, so it's not the plugs/wires/cap/rotor. Unfortunately I don't have money for new injectors, but I do have a used JY intake manifold with a full set of injectors in the fuel rail. My question is how do I test the injectors? Can they be tested on the car while it is not running or in the JY fuel rail without being connected to anything? By running an Ohm test do you mean using an electric tester and touching one node to each prong in the connector?

I'm thinking of just swapping over the entire fuel rail with injectors from the JY intake to my car but I'm not sure if they are in better or worse shape than the (working)ones I have in there. Plus, not having yet taken off the connectors on my Max I wonder if the red top square injectors on the JY intake are compatible with my harness.

Also, does using only OEM O-rings really make such a difference? Does everyone have bad experience with parts-store O-rings?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

-Mrkanda

*internetautomar* · 03-04-2009, 10:48 AM

the injector connector on the "red top" (VE/VQ injectors) are different than the 89-92 VG injector connector, assuming you still have the correct harness

*CapedCadaver* · 03-04-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkanda

So, I have the same problem as some...
/snip/
...ted. Thanks.

-Mrkanda

Quote:

Originally Posted by internetautomar

the injector connector on the "red top" (VE/VQ injectors) are different than the 89-92 VG injector connector, assuming you still have the correct harness

http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ORG%20members/ that is the difference in connector types brian mentioned.

old = 89-92, new = 93-94 VG, all VE, and all VQ30DE.

so if you switch styles, you just have to get a front subharness from a 93-94 VG maxima, and the rear injector plugs from any compatible car listed above. The rails and o-rings are specific to the injector style, so you can't just mix and match the 2 styles in the same rail

now... the red-top ones you have... did they come from a VE or a VG? Cuz the VE fuel rail won't fit a VG cuz of the pipe routing.. so you'd have to put them in a 93-94VG fuel rail.

*CapedCadaver* · 03-04-2009, 04:09 PM

so i just got done pulling my 89-92 style injectors off my car... it was worse than i thought:
1: 42.8 ohms
2: 12.0 ohms
3: 12.1 ohms
4: no reading (broken coil)
5: 29.5 ohms
6: 12.0 ohms

so my car was basically randomly alternating between having 3, 4, and 5 working cylinders. Which, given the fact that i had to basically floor it in 1st gear just to get to 20mph, isn't really a surprising discovery. the weird thing is that at Goon's house (october 2008, so, just 5 months ago), we double-checked all the resistance readings and all of them were at 12.4 ohms i think.. so i was terribly surprised to see that three of them failed in 5 months! i'm definitely not blaming Goon tho.. there's no way anyone could have known that was going to happen.. i guess i just got really unlucky. But hopefully i can put these red ones in and not have to touch them again for a good long while. Thankfully all the injectors I got from AJcool2 are at a very nice 10.9 ohms +/- 0.1ohm, not to mention the VE/VQ style injectors seem to have better reliability.

*mrkanda* · 03-04-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ORG%20members/ that is the difference in connector types brian mentioned.

old = 89-92, new = 93-94 VG, all VE, and all VQ30DE.

so if you switch styles, you just have to get a front subharness from a 93-94 VG maxima, and the rear injector plugs from any compatible car listed above. The rails and o-rings are specific to the injector style, so you can't just mix and match the 2 styles in the same rail

now... the red-top ones you have... did they come from a VE or a VG? Cuz the VE fuel rail won't fit a VG cuz of the pipe routing.. so you'd have to put them in a 93-94VG fuel rail.

Thanks for the pic. I do see the different types. The ones on my 89 GXE are the Pink Top old type square looking ones. The ones I got from the JY fuel rail are also from a VG and look to be the same shape although they are red instead of pink. I assume that they may have been from a newer 89-92 VG with just a different color. I have yet to test them for Ohm resistance. Hopefully they are all or mostly good. And I assume that if they are the same type as my originals that I can just reuse them in the same fuel rail, right?

BTW, does everyone recommend OEM O-Rings instead of Aftermarket? Do Aftermarket O-Rings always leak?

Thanks.

biggz2332 · 03-04-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

well my car's a m/t, so i decide when it's time to shift.... but essentially, my car just runs like sh*t all the time.... it vibrates violently, makes no power at all, and the exhaust note sounds sickly...... of course i know what the problem is.. just waiting for the injectors i bought to get here so i can put the in.

I see what your saying I gotta wait till next week to do my one injector but them things is expensive good thing they all dont ruin at once

*CapedCadaver* · 03-04-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkanda

Thanks for the pic. I do see the different types. The ones on my 89 GXE are the Pink Top old type square looking ones. The ones I got from the JY fuel rail are also from a VG and look to be the same shape although they are red instead of pink. I assume that they may have been from a newer 89-92 VG with just a different color. I have yet to test them for Ohm resistance. Hopefully they are all or mostly good. And I assume that if they are the same type as my originals that I can just reuse them in the same fuel rail, right?

BTW, does everyone recommend OEM O-Rings instead of Aftermarket? Do Aftermarket O-Rings always leak?

Thanks.

well.. ok how far do your pintle caps stick out from the bottom of the rail on your replacement set? top or bottom?

the top pic is the newer VE/VQ30DE/93+VG style injectors, the bottom pic is the old metal-clip style VG injectors. The long pintle-cap (bottom pic) injectors will only work in the 89-92 rail, and the new style injectors have a different rail. I had the new style on my car to start with (cuz someone put a 94 motor in my car way before i bought it), but then switched back to the old style... and now i'm switching back to the new style.

*internetautomar* · 03-04-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapedCadaver

http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ORG%20members/ that is the difference in connector types brian mentioned.

old = 89-92, new = 93-94 VG, all VE, and all VQ30DE.

so if you switch styles, you just have to get a front subharness from a 93-94 VG maxima, and the rear injector plugs from any compatible car listed above. The rails and o-rings are specific to the injector style, so you can't just mix and match the 2 styles in the same rail

now... the red-top ones you have... did they come from a VE or a VG? Cuz the VE fuel rail won't fit a VG cuz of the pipe routing.. so you'd have to put them in a 93-94VG fuel rail.

All 3rd gen VG should be pink top. BTW

*internetautomar* · 03-04-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggz2332

I see what your saying I gotta wait till next week to do my one injector but them things is expensive good thing they all dont ruin at once

they do fail one after another rather rapidly in alot of cases.