Nmax92

Have anyone used an ignition amplifier? I've seen one from MSD Ignition, the MSD 5 and MSD 6A. They claim it increases more power, better fuel economy and a better spark to completely burn gas. What do you think?

1992maximase30

if they have one for the vg i would get one in a heart beat.
i had one on my 89 accord se-i and the performance did improve. the gas milege improved a bit but i'm sure it would've been more had i not been accelerating hard.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

I think, "for the price, I have better things to buy."
if you have money for it, go for it. I hear nothing but good things.
whether it would work for the vg, but I don't see why not.

LvR

So how about this then:

1. What is the current state of tune on your motor? - maintenance/milage etc?

2.What is the absolute best consumption figure you have seen reported for a motor like yours (VG/VE)?

3. What sort of consumption are you currently seeing with your personal motor? .......................


If you cannot equal that consumption figure (yeah I know its difficult to have exactly the same operating/driving conditions) or get to within about 10% of that while trying your honest best, then your motor/vehicle needs some serious maintenance/repair ........................

If you get to within about 5% of that best consumption figure while trying your honest best, you need to spend money on beer and not on an ignition system replacement that may/may not get you perhaps 0.5 mpg on a well tuned/maintained vehicle.

I have yet to see a single mentioned benefit from the write-ups on these super replacement ignition systems, that is not already present on my stock and properly maintained vehicle with 300K km on the clock.

IMO if you "need" rather than "want" this ignition mod, then you have obviously screwed up on either the maintenance of the motor or the mods you performed on the original setup

Nmax92

The motor has about 169K original miles, K&N cone air filter, no factory air box. Oil change regularly, new NGK spark plugs, new wires, 5 speed swap. She purs like a kitten. All in all the car is well maintained.
I'm just looking for the best in perfomance on a levels, responsiveness, acceleration, cruise.

Even if a car is well maintained, one sometimes want the most out of their motor, ie Exhaust system, y-pipe, CAI, etc. Just my opinion. I came across the MSD's site and was curious about the gains they claim.

cmachemer

iTrader: (3)

If you're looking for responsiveness, at least in terms of acceleration/throttle response, one of the guys on here (Matt93SE) sells grounding kits. It's a very simple, relatively inexpensive way to make the 2nd to 1st kickdown (for autos) much faster, smooth out the powerband and just generally make for a more fun drive. /endorsement
(I haven't even bought mine yet, but I know from previous experience with other Maximas that it makes a noticeable difference)

LvR

Question:

What exactly makes you think you are not already getting the most out of that motor?

If you passed your last emission inspection (iow you are burning all fuel properly already) and cannot complain about anything specific, exactly where is the unburnt fuel you wanna burn to improve matters?

The Max

I've been running a Jacobs Pro-Street system in mine since it had about 45,000 miles or so on it. The gains were immediate. City driving, my mileage increased from 300km to 400km to empty. Open road, my mileage increased from 600km to 800km (to empty). Horsepower gains were nothing major but it did beef it up by 25hp at the time.

All in all, I say it is worth it but only if you get a good system for the job. Quite frankly, I doubt there is anything better than the Jacobs system given it is the more intelligent ignition conditioning system in that it doesn't just throw in a hot spark and hope for the best, as most others tend to do. Also, their coils are more efficient in my view too and that results in a coil that can put out continuously hot sparks when required for a longer duration and reliably.

LvR

So I do about 480km on a full tank in city driving with a stock ignition on the VG and an auto ........... don't see no improvement there for me then.

Highway I see about 660km on a full tank. You say you get 800km? - somehow I doubt that very much.

The Max

Considering my driving style never changed (lead-footed), I'd say it was a significant improvement for me.

You're entitled to doubt that. Things have changed since I got the 4000RPM stall speed TC with my Level 10 PTS3 upgrade and it's brought me back to about 600km on the open road. Thankfully it didn't change any further when I turbocharged it, unless I cruise at speeds higher than 180km/h, where it brings on about 4 PSI boost at half-throttle.

As for that last quote, the motor was only 45,000 miles old, very well and regularly maintained (every 5000km) and no modifications other than the ignition system. Quite frankly, I don't have a point to prove. I know what I'm getting and that's all that matters.

LvR

Well - yes that is one way to approach the subject and not interact sensibly on the topic, but you are in effect saying that these ignitions will improve fuel economy by 30%+ while also improving engine output by about 10%+

Go on - pull the other one

In all the threads on 3rd gen fuel consumption figures read ever, I have yet to see anybody else with an auto 3rd gen (or a 5sp for that matter) report 37+mpg ..................... I can only congratulate you.

You are talking the difference between petrol and diesel efficiencies on the same engine here man!

The Max

No, that would involve trading insults and that's just not my style. As for the improvements noted, they were measured improvements. Granted, it was using an odometer and fuel bowser for the mileage gains but then it was also sat on roller dyno for the hp difference measurement.

I realise that but why is it so difficult to think outside of the norm for just one moment and consider that maybe there is a good ignition system out there that can achieve this? High performance modified vehicles use them for a reason and there's nothing out there to really suggest that it would be a waste on a stock vehicle for that matter.

I've tried it and have reaped the rewards. Maybe all the nay-sayers need to try it or at least see for themselves what the right system can do. In fact, the engineer who is building my next VG for me is already talking about another ignition system altogether which he believes gives even greater gains than my Jacobs. Coming from someone who has the credentials and proof that he has worked in the Indy car scene as a chief mechanical engineer, I don't consider it hard to believe and if anything, the nay-sayers make it even less convincing for me not to believe that it may well be the case.

In the end, I just try things and if they don't work, eBay and cut my losses. At least I can say I gave the theory a chance by putting it into practice and seeing for myself.

If that isn't sensible, well I'm sorry but I have nothing else to offer you to appease your sense of sensibility.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

i've pulled off a 798km tank (496mi). So it is quite possible.

LvR

At highway speeds of 70+mph? ......................... I stand corrected and capitulate

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

from Ohio back to Raleigh NC, average clip 75mph

whattingh

my VG30 5sp has got 11.86km/L (33.5mpg) before when it had 130 000km's. Now if I remember correctly it has a 65Liter tank. That gives 65*11.86=771km. So 800km could be possible.

LvR

I think you guys able to do 800 missed the real issue I tried to highlight - that being if a vehicle such as your own with stock ignition can do 800 km using absolutely all of the 65 liter tank, what do you think you can achieve if you add 30% as achieved by The Max ............................

and if you can actually do 800 without the fancy ignition, why is The Max so impressed with the results obtained - imo he is effectively doing no better than you guys surely? .................. yet you guys have nothing to say!

The jump from 600 to 800 by simply fitting the fancy ignition is what I am wondering about - thats all

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

send me one and lemme give it a whirl

LvR

Well - you see that has also always been my attitude.

I am always game to try something with a decent promise - however not at my expense .................................. and I have yet to find a single one of these guys with lots of promises to be so sure of their **** that they will install, at their cost and time, in my vehicle, their product for me to prove that it is working, and then only have me pay if I can achieve their promised gains ................... else they remove it at their cost and time and set my vehicle back to original .........................

No takers so far!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

I think the point you seem to be missing in what Tony (and others) are saying is that there are efficiencies to be gained by installing a better ignition system. Just because the car runs fine as-is doesn't mean you can't get better than what Nissan originally designed. Yes, MOST modifications like these increase the lead-foot syndrome, which decreases average MPG- just like intakes and y pipes- the other two most significant and easy engine modifications. both increase the efficiency of the engine, thereby 'creating' power. the downside is that people like to feel said increase in power, so they tend to push the pedal down farther more often, decreasing mileage.

For highway cruising (~75mph- 120km/h), my bone stock automatic GXE would usually see about 28mpg. after an intake, Y pipe, new oxygen sensor and spark plugs, I took off on a 2000 mile road trip. average mileage was 34mpg on the highway.

So yes, I saw a significant increase in fuel mileage just by bolting on a few things. I don't see why the installation of a better ignition system on a Maxima won't help a little bit more.
30% efficiency and 10% power gains do seem a bit far-fetched to me as well, but given the proper ignition timing and other variables, I could fathom what Tony has mentioned seeing.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Why would a legit business with a legit product have to spend their time and money trying to prove something like that to ONE person, when others will be glad to buy it without the hassles?

LvR

Nobody can force any business to prove anything they dont want to or have to prove.

While there are enough people out there that are willing to spend the money on a promise and then, as Tony said, dump the **** on ebay if it doent work, there is no real need to prove anything to anybody. I am not saying Tony is suffering from the mentioned syndrome, but as long as there are testimonies to the fact that the product is the best thing since toasted sliced bread, the company will continue to sell enough to make it worth their while - completely irrespective of the heaps of negative (and perhaps more objective?) reports also present on the web.

I have no problem with trying to improve on any current design and I certainly do not consider the 3rd gens designs to be the benchmark to strive for, but imo if the OEM ignition performance in this case can be shown to equal the "gains" that can be had from a aftermarket product at huge cost and effort, what exactly are you people fighting with me about?


IMO we have now that the 800km thing got started come exactly full circle wrt my original post - ie

Lets take Caped's/Whattinghs' vehicle that with a stock ignition system can do 800km on a tank. ITO the thread's topic what are they to make of Tony's claims and why would they go and spend the money on this ignition system even with that amazing testimony?



.............. and I didnt miss the point at all - in fact I am sure there may be efficiencies on many an individual vehicle to be gained by bolting on an ignition system - but if other vehicles of the same design can be proven to already achieve said efficiencies without that, you cannot possibly conclude the bolt-on to be the holy grail - in your particular vehicle's case it may be the answer because of some current "situation" you may have .........................

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

how much did the whole setup dent your wallet, if you recall?

1992maximase30

umm...back to the question at hand so to say.
do they make an aftermarket coil for the vg30?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Any "coil" will work. it just depends on how much you want to do. do you want an aftermarket ignition 'system' or just a different coil?

LvR, you also have to keep in mind driving styles, speeds, weather, fuel mixtures, and altitudes around the world are drastically different. change any one of those variables and the average fuel efficiency of the vehicle changes.

Aussie pump gas is ~96 octane, I believe? From conversations with Tony, Aussie spec 96 is similar in overall chemistry to US-spec 93, but it's still different enough that I wouldn't want to compare overall averages.

There's also parts of the US where the highest octane you can buy is 87 octane and buy as low as 83. Other places, the lowest you can buy is 89 and you can buy up to 95. I've even seen 100 at the pump before at a couple stations in Dallas. Most of that stuff is directly altitude related, but with changes in altitude come changes in engine efficiency due to air density.

800km/tank in Australia is different than 800km/tank in the New England states is different than 800km/tank in Texas is different than 800km/tank in Colorado.

blah blah blah.
stuff like this shouldn't be used in place of a proper tuneup, but installing them to gain efficiency by replacing a weaker system on an otherwise healthy engine is just fine.

Tony went out on a limb and tried something nobody else had done, and he found out it worked quite well. So rather than expecting a company to come and put the stuff on my car and pay for the labor to substantiate claims that have already been proven, it should be on us to buy and try the product.

A few things from my high school Latin class come to pass here.

1. Caveat emptor.
2. Carpe diem.
3. De gustibus non est disputandum.

mrkanda

iTrader: (3)

Ahmen!

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Just a quick addition. I've run two seperate Jacob's ICE pack systems, both failed in less than a year. Their coils seem to be of much better quality. However, IMO thier electronic systems (spark/load sensing systems) don't seem worth their weight in scrap metal. I understand what is mentioned in this thread is a different Jacob's system, but wanted to put out some alternative experience with Jacobs; be careful.

sonicii

My VG auto will do 500km on a tank city driving and I have done 770km on the highway with around 7L left, with a stock engine and ignition, I would suggest the above improvement may be due to a problem that was either repaired or masked by the new ignition system, and returned the economy (and possibly the power)to the normal figures.

As for the Australian fuel, 91 is standard, but 95 and 98 is available, as suggested the method of measurement is different in US, and I believe 91 in AU is similar to 87 US.