traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

Imagine you're driving down a country road and then all of a sudden it feels like you just ran over a chipmunk....you didn't see anything, and there's no dead rodents in the road...so you just keep driving home. Fast forward two hours later when you go back to the car to make a trip to the pizza place and you notice something wierd about your passenger side tire. It's kind of...dare I say...cockeyed? Well this is not right, you say to yourself. So you get down on the ground and take a look at the new polyurethane bushings you just installed. Somethings funny....the control arm rod that goes through the rear bushing has a little more room than you remember, then you realise that the actual bushing...is MISSING! AHH!


Okay, so my rear inner control arm bushing broke for the second time yesterday.... If you've seen what the bushings look like, it's basically a hard plastic outer shell, and a polyurethane insert. Well, what happened it that the poly insert actually forced itself out of the shell and off the control arm.

If you look at this pic of the bushing, is looks physically impossible. Well, it's not. I originally had that "lip" facing the rear of the car, and when it popped out I just thought, wow that was really wierd, thank god it happened on my driveway. I just figured I'd install it backwards so that the lip would keep it from sliding off. But the lip didn't help at all, because two days later it happened again. Now I'm left with the outer white part and the black poly part is nowhere to be found. Oh well....good thing I'm getting a new one under warranty.



NEW: (Plastic & Poly)


OLD: (1 Piece of Rubber)

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Oh my!

I'm glad i decided to go with the 4th gen cut bushings instead.


IIRC,Michael put these on his last project car.

LvR

I don't know ....................... IMO if the bushing came off the rod while mounted, there is a way more basic problem present there somewhere - either incorrectly fitted or there is a distortion present in the suspension mounting locations that allows for this to happen.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

By his description,the rubber middle part separated from the white outer part,I don't see any way this could be anything else but a manufacturing defect.

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

i dunno...but either way it's really wierd. I was thinking that maybe the control arm was wiggling back and fourth and eventually pushed out the bushing. I don't have any strange tire wear though. It's not a scary problem, because the control arm is still held in place by the bracket and white outer part, but it is still bad...lol. We'll see maybe it won't happen on the new one. The drivers side is perfectly fine, btw.

LvR

As I said - I don't know...........

The plastic and poly combination was at best axially "pressed" together to form a "unit". That bushing's shoulder should be mounted so that the shoulder is to-wards the front of the vehicle - ie - it has nowhere to go (metal shoulder of the rod preventing that) as long as the the actual rod piece going through that bushing can go nowhere .....................

The "transverse link" (FSM) is securely located by 2 sturdy metal "bits" (shoulder at the rear and a washer on the front of the front mounting) and that whole assembly its held together and in position by a nut ...................... so imo there are 3 things that can make the rear mount "fall apart" because of excess play:

Either the front mount assembly is funky and thereby allow the "rod" in the rear mount to move laterally - or if that is not the case and the front mount is actually locating the front of the transverse link securely

There is somehow a variation of the expected fixed distance between the front and the rear mount positions preventing the front mount securely locating the transverse link - or

The actual link has a defect (crack?) to allow the expected fixed distance between its mounting points to vary.



EditIMO that is wrong - that black plastic lip should face the front of the vehicle so that it cannot be pressed/forced out of the white part of the bushing...........

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Ahh yes i see what you mean now.. ( your wording can be hard to understand sometimes.)



Agreed,if the part arrowed was facing the rear of the car,it could (and most likely did) "wiggle it's self out of the white bushing housing.

LvR

OT - More than likely I know - my home language is Afrikaans.

What should it have been then?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

vfghjdftydxrbgjkxnhfdrghxm?

LvR

Ah - I see now the errors of my ways.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

According to the FSM...that lip faces the rear of the car...which I also thought to be strange. I turned it towards the front when it popped out the first time because I saw some physics behind the incident and decided that having it face the front should prevent it from happening again. The front bolt near the ltb prevents the bar from moving front to back, and the sway bar prevents side to side movement...I'm at a loss. There are no cracks in any parts in that area.

LvR

If you had the lip to the front, that U-bracket securely bolted down and the front mount tight with the washer and nut present and secured, then there can be absolutely no way for the rear mount's inner to escape the confines of the white outer part ....................... I don't care who says what.

If that black inner part managed to somehow "escape" and disappear, there is something happening there and its something that effectively make that an extremely unsafe vehicle to drive.

You either missed something or possibly damaged that mount in some obscure way (by fitting it the wrong way round the first time) to allow things to progress to this stage.

Can you take detail photos of the areas around the mounts as they currently are (ie properly mounted according to you) and stick them up here so we can have a look?

This is a pic off my car with old original rubber mountings in good and original condition properly mounted - lip to the front

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Huh? Show me where in the fsm it says this?

Every 3rd gen maxima I've ever seen has the bushing lip facing the front of the car.

maxima-junky

iTrader: (8)

What are the advantages of polyeurathane bushings appose to the rubber ones anyway? Please help educate the Newbie.

LvR

Basically a much more certain positioning of any joint where poly gets substituted for rubber ....................

Less torque-steer, more precise and predictable cornering abilities, improved and more predictable braking, less tire wear ................... you just about name it and its OK for that.

Downside is that the whole vehicle may experience a degradation in "comfort" because the poly is more prone to transferring shock/vibrations etc to the body and thus the cabin

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Improved cornering/ Less wheel hop/More durable and will last longer than rubber bushings.


Also,poly bushings are virtually impervious to oil and other road contaminants,so if you develop a oil or power steering leak,the poly bushings will not be destroyed by the oils,unlike the oem rubber bushings.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

add additional noise too?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

I honestly haven't noticed any additional noise from poly bushings.

When i recently redone my rear links with poly,i noticed a drop in noise over bumps compared to my oem rubber bushings,but they were in pretty bad shape.I guess 300,000+ miles took it's toll on the ole rubber..

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

but be careful because if by chance you do damage one, you can be in trouble... Poly isn't as flexible and depending on the hardness, has the potentil to crumble rather than tear. Unlikely but it can happen if one gets cracked. My engine was not positioned straight relative to my poly mount, so when i put it on, the bracket came down on one side of the middle sleeve, and crushed one side of the mount. It may still be OK but i'll just have to drive it on Friday and see. Still isn't ready to drive yet... I have to put the radiator and intake back in still. Worked until 11pm last night to get the exhaust and motor mount done.

maxitech

iTrader: (7)

I had a buddy assist me in installing the shown rear control arm bushings in June...Last time I crawled under my car I noticed that they don't look exactly the same the way they sit...Take a look:





Probably not a cause for concern, but I figured I'd see what you guys think...

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

^^^^^^^^^
Take some pics of the front bushings for me please,both sides..

maxitech

iTrader: (7)

will do in the morning...

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

Hey all, my bushings now look just like the most recent posted pictures. There's nothing out of place...no strange bolts. They are completly torqued down to spec as well. I already shipped the old housing out for warranty, but it was definetaly installed correctly the second time. The reason they stick out a little past the housing is because they taper down to a smaller ID, and the pressure of the housing on the bushing won't allow it to slide completly on the control arm. It's no cause for concern, because as long as the bushing is on the whole length of the control arm rod then it's doing its job. These bushing make absolutely no noise though...which brings me to my next point:

I did purchase some ST poly grease to use on the bushings in case they DID make noise. I gave them a good coating on the inner and outer surfaces....basically anything that touched metal. That stuff is VERY slippery, and could have caused the bushing to slip off. I didn't use any grease on the new bushing and so far it hasn't moved a bit.

LvR, if there was a wheel shake or something of that nature than I would say that would definetally cause something to "wiggle" out of place. A constant vibration's harmonic frequencies can unscrew the tightest of bolts after some time, if they match up. I do not, however, think that was the case here. I just finished getting all my NEW tires balanced, and the car was aligned. There is no steering wheel shake and my tires are wearing perfectly even according to my depth gauge. In regards to the fsm, I interpreted the picture to show the lip facing the rear of the car. The possibility that the inner sleeve could slide out didn't register at the time, but i'm pretty sure thats how the diagram is shown. I don't have it handy to make a copy. Regardless, I already have a pretty stiff suspension setup..with poly motor mounts and all poly bushings on the sways, rear parallel links, there's no rubber mounts left on the car besides trans mounts...So I haven't noticed an increased roughness in comfort level. It's all relative to what you're used to....but I would imagine it wouldn't be that noticable even when going from a stock setup.

LvR

Well - as long as you are are sure its ok ...............Since I posted that pic off my car with the original rubber mounts its obvious I have not yet had to deal with these poly animals, but I would anyway query the logic of this all - I have to wonder about a final assembly's integrity when the metal lip on the arm is not right next to the black plastic bush's lip ........................... or is the polly mount's designer of the opinion that the lip on the pin of the arm is not needed and that Nissan didn't know what they were doing?

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

after reading that a couple times, I think I understand what you're getting at, lol. In my opinion the sole purpose of that lip is so that:

A) The bushing cannot be pressed on too far (which can be the case for both poly and rubber bushings)

B) To act as a stop for the poly bushing. (The rubber bushing is one piece, therefore this logic cannot apply to it...it's either all off or all on. The small ridges on the outer piece interact with the U-Bracket and prevent it from comming off.)

It is possible that the poly bushing designer decided to replicate the exact shape of the OEM bushing, and got that shape...but I'm thinking he/she also saw the logic in using the lip as a stop to prevent the bushing from sliding out during use.

maxitech

iTrader: (7)

Front bushings are A-OK, but the bolts were a little loose...so I tightened 'em down (obviously).



White foam is degreaser, in case anyone was wondering:

LvR

I was ................... wondering if the Max was foaming at the mouth!

I don't know what to think now - if the front mount quality is as per your pics, then there must be a problem between the spanner and the bolts on the rear mounts - IMO they should look exactly the same after installation and they currently are not. ........................

Me? - I would replace both rear mounts again while taking great care to mount the lip of the inner bushing to the front.

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

The front bushings are really nice...they're a two piece bushing with a center metal sleeve to prevent the bushing from being squeezed too tightly. That paired with the included washers makes for a MUCH better than stock bushing. Of course...I also have the stage II LTB paired up with it all, so that helps things.

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

Interesting...they company now no longer stocks those control arm bushings...they now stock these:



Hmm....can we say product improvement? These new ones are produced by armstrong distributors while the old ones were OEQ. The new ones are beginning to have the same problem, btw...that inner sleeve is beginning to slide out again!

LvR

Can you post a pic of the guarantee replacement ones also sliding out - especially the side facing the front of the car.

IMO the new design is way better because its quite obvious where that shoulder on the arm is going to get positioned next to the mount

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

I was wondering how long before they changed the design back. but those bushings in your pic are 4th gen not 3rd gen.

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

yeah...I just figured that out by talking to a representative....plus the angled cuts aren't there which made me ask in the first place. I think that I'm just going to get those, modify them, and screw the ordeal.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the ones you want are 54570-85e11 they run like $15 EA.
that # has the correct cuts on it for the 3rd gen and are complete rubber.

traxtar944

iTrader: (12)

I want poly though....my oem rubber ones are still intact, but I wanted the upgrade. Turns out they're more like a downgrade. I've seen the energy suspension control arm bushing set here: Energy Susp Front Suspension Bushings - Black Polyurethane

But I don't know if that's the right kit. My single bushing costs $40, and this "set" costs $35. A courtesy parts search for that part number got me this: Energy Suspension Front Control Arm Bushing Set These do not appear to have a lip to prevent the bushing from sliding out... And a 4th gen search shows that some people had problems with these bushings splitting.

So, where do I find the bushing in the most recent pic, and is it even polyurethane? It almost appears to be rubber! The search for "control arm bushings" is getting like 5 results on the org and the links to other threads don't work anymore.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the ES poly bushings need to be cut in order to fit the 3rd gen. Friction is what holds them in place, there is no lip.

maxitech

iTrader: (7)

Where'd Wayne go? He's the one I took the pics for!

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

The front ones look ok to me.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

so these bushings are the ones we need for our cars?
and when I do it, will it be obvious what needs trimming?

throttlehappy46

I think this design would suit you guys a little better, good old Australian ingenunity
The above polybush, increases castor and makes the car more stable at high speed.

However, if you want a standard replacement poly bush then try this one: