Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Oh, 13s are doable NA without an expensive budget. The only catch is, you will weigh 2800 lbs and have every kind of bolt on and port job you could do. Like me for instance, I am going to be dang close to cracking 13s this winter without an upgraded ECU. I have a lot of ghetto stuff done to make me faster. If you wanted to do it and still have full interior, then you would have to drop some serious cash into this car to get it in the 13s at 3200lbs NA. A 5spd swap would be needed if you wanted to stay 3200lbs NA and want those 13s.

swowlinc

iTrader: (10)

Ghetto mods like what??

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

Mostly, I think he means he shaved like 500 lbs of weight out of his car + a lot of little things like porting and polishing TB and intake, TB spacer, etc, along with the normal bolt on stuff.

KLoWnPR109

iTrader: (9)

Take them all off and sell them. That's what I did

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

stock crew holla!

swowlinc

iTrader: (10)

I wonder what it would feel like to go back to stock...Ewwww!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Yeah, I meant stuff like having no carpet, no sound deadening, rear skinnies, zip ties on springs, rear spacers, porting anything I see, etc. Feel free to check out my mods list on my website. I update it very frequently. Any changes that I make to the website will be reflected in the News and Updates section on the main page.

Also, going back to stock? Wow, my car was SLOW stock. I remember when I bought the car in Las Vegas Aug 2002, it was over 110 degrees then and I didn't know what heat soak was. haha I would get on the gas and the car wouldn't move at all! I'm serious when I say it was dangerous b/c it was so slow. Then sometimes, it would be kinda quick when the motor wasn't so hot. I would pull out into traffic and expect to be able to accelerate at a normal Civic type pace, then to my surprise, the car doesn't want to go! It was as slow as my 1990 automatic Stanza with masking tape racing stripes! I'm glad I don't have that problem what so ever anymore.

N34JZ

iTrader: (1)

HOLLA!

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

I have a great formula:

1) Sell your car for $3000-4000
2) Buy a 4th gen SE 5spd for $3000-4000
3) Buy a VQ35 and swap it in for $1500-2000 http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=430880
4) Run mid 13's w/ an N/A car that's newer and more reliable with a low mileage motor
5) Mod the he!! out of it (ECU, SAFC, Coilovers, exhaust, etc, etc.)

You'll have a reliable, N/A car that's still extremely reliable, gets great gas mileage, and has much more potential and fewer problems than the lowly VE

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

your logic is flawed

not only does the 4th gen look and handle like crap, but the build quality is lower aswell . I also find your reliability comments grossly off base. You also did not mention a flywheel on your breif mod list. A Fidanza is far more important than any of those items

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

holla!

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Looks are a matter of opinion, handling is not much different between the two, and the build quality isn't much different from the third gen. I don't think the "build quality" argument is a very solid one. People claim that the 4th gen is lower quality because the interior isn't quite as nice and because it's 100lbs lighter then the 3rd gen. Just because it's lighter doesn't mean the chassis or the whole is lower quality, the weight of the motor is a huge weight savings and it's even better than the VE. So lighter isn't worse quality is it?

What is off base about the reliability comments? The VQ35 is much more reliable than the VE. A 4th gen that runs 13's will be very reliable because your using mostly factory parts. The VE is a problematic motor to begin with, adding turbo or nitrous to get it into the 13's will only magnify it's issues, I think you mentioned that earlier in this thread yourself.

Yeah, I didn't mention the Flywheel for either car, didn't mention the UDP either, but I think you can see my point.

I appreciate third gens for what they are just as much as the next guy, I'm just stating my point of view and I don't see any holes in it. If you want to mod a 3rd gen I think that's great, if you want to mod a 4th gen that's great too, I'm a Maxima enthusiast all the way, not just a 4th gen enthusiast so mod on people

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

First time I've ever heard anyone say a 4th gen is lower quality because of weight... As for the others, have you owned a VE 5spd before? Modified? Ever driven a 3rd gen with a fully modded suspension?

I've owned VE's for over three and a half years now and have never had a problem with any of them. You should know the Iron block makes the VG/VE accept Nitrous/FI much easier than an all aluminum VQ.

So why did you come into the 3rd gen forum and tell a member to sell his car and buy a 4th gen?

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Yep, '92 SE 5spd, working VTC's, CAI, Fidanza flywheel, y-pipe, high flow cat, blehmco ground wire kit, timing advance, new tune-up and clutch and all. Very sweet car, just ran out of options with it.

The only problems I had with mine were regular maxima stuff: Knock Sensor, Fuel injectors, IACV was always goofy, and the input shaft bearing went out on the tranny, so I had that replaced.

As far as the iron block vs. aluminum block, honestly I'm not familiar with turboing the VQ but I know there's alot of turboed, supercharged, and nitroused VQ's running around out there and I don't think it's a big issue.


Well I was in a similar position that swowlinc is right now. I did all of the main bolt-ons as far as engine mods go and I didn't have the time or money to do a custom turbo or a built N/A VE. It was much more feasible and cost-effective to get the 4th gen, there's a how-to and everything for a 3.5 swap, or the cheaper upgrade w/ a DE-K swap. There's just alot more options even if you don't want to do a bunch of custom work to get a car in the 13's. I do have respect for 3rd gens though MrGone so don't hate

Oh yeah, I also came into the 3rd gen forum because I was bored and had a little time on my hands to Haha, it's all in fun though.

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

That's not a bad idea, except most people don't have the ability to just "swap in" a motor. That is a lot of work, even if you have all of the tools and a shop. Many people don't even have garages. Also, that is a lot of downtime to do a full engine swap with a bunch of different parts and modifications to the engine.

Realistically, you are looking at something like $8k or more, plus probably several weeks of downtime for that kind of set up, unless you have enough ability to do everything yourself and there are only a handful of guys that would even want to attempt it.

It is a cool idea and I wish we could do that swap into a 3rd gen. I just know that there are a lot of added costs + time that goes into something like a motor swap.

lanedrifters

iTrader: (4)

I dont know about you , but I cant argue with a bottom end built from the beefieness of a ttz.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

JWT ecu = big diff UDP made a decent diff. That's probably a good 15hp conservatively.

I didn't see too much suspension stuff. I think that's where you missed out the most.

Honestly? Most if not all the weight diff from the gens is from the engine. 100lbs is the weight diff inbetween the VQ and VE. More than a few 4-gen/3-gen owners have commented that the 4-gen interior is much cheaper in quality than the 3-gen.

In the mid 90s Nissan was broke as a joke. The redesigned 4-gen clearly shows this. And to tell you the truth, 4-gens are not aging very well at all. Although newer, I still see more beat up looking 4 gens vs 3-gens. One thing Nissan did right was the VQ30.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Most people want do a motor swap probably, but it is more readily available than doing custom turbocharging or a fully-built motor. I'm really not experienced with custom work, but I'm not afraid to do a DE-K swap because it mostly just bolts up, there's not much involved. As far as downtime, there's a guy who swapped in a DE-K on the side of the road in less than a few days so it's not as bad as people might think. You can also pay Tilley to do all the engine modification so it requires little fab work to put it in. I wish you could easily swap a 3.5 into a 3rd gen too, if I could swap either that or a DE-K into a third gen I'd probably sell my 4th gen and get a decent third gen instead.

Jeff92se-your right, I would have liked to have got the JWT and UDP for my 3rd gen, I really liked that car but I just felt like I would hit a dead end as far as the engine modding goes. I didn't do anything to the suspension because it handled pretty well stock w/ some 17's. And your right about the interior being cheap, I'll be one of the first to admit to that, but it's not that important to me. I think there's alot more beat up 4th gens because there's just alot more 4th gens on the road today, but I see alot of beat up third gens too.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

It seems like unless you shell out the $ to equal a turbo kit, you will be hitting the VQ30 wall very soon also. If you don't get lucky with an VQ35 purchase, don't do your own work or any combo of the two, you will be into a VQ35 swap for a few thousand at the min.

Local NW maxima guy was selling his Tilley converted VQ35 for his 4-gen for $1800 + shipping. And that doesn't include install.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Well with a y-pipe and intake on the DE-K swap your looking at 200+ WHP and Torque, that's before ECU and lightened flywheel, UDP, so you can easily get past the 200hp and tq mark.

But w/ the 3.5 and my current y-pipe and exhaust and intake it would be at least 230whp and tq, and with ECU, full exhaust, udp, lightened flywheel, different intake manifold, etc. I don't see why you couldn't hit the 250whp and tq mark, and that's just all-motor. I'd be more than happy with that and it would still be a pretty reliable motor w/ stock internals.

So if I wanted to shell out some $$$ I'd go w/ the 3.5 instead of the DE-K swap, but I'm just not ready to spend $2000+ versus about $500 for the DE-K.

Nismo87SE

Lets not forget that for VG guys the VG33E would be an easy swap. That motor can make big power with high compression, cams, ported heads. Stock it comes with 8.9 or 9.0cr IIRC, with some OEM VH45DE pistons it gets 3.4L and 9.6cr. I've seen dynos of RWD VGs with cams making around 158-170whp. With high compression and a better IM there is no doubt a 10:1 VG could make 170-185whp easy.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

Earlier you guys mentioned some stuff about exhaust manifolds...porting them, etc. Can you point me to any threads about that. What's the word on VG manifolds? Are there any headers out there for 3rd gen's? How come just use Y-pipes? I mean, I'm sitting here looking at my spare set of stock manifolds and they look pathetic as far as flow is concerned? Just curious, there is nothing in the mods sticky about that.

Nismo87SE

I wouldn't bother with porting the exhaust manifolds. To much work for too little gain. Unless you could build your own exhaust manifold, it would be better to just get a Y pipe. I'm sure there could be 2-5whp gain over a Y pipe with a smartly designed header.

VEvolution

From what I hear, the gains are worthless... http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....rting+Manifold

Oh and, jwmaxse.. You know, I must say.. You have a good point on almost everything you said about having reliable power coming from that 3.5 on the 4th gen.. But it's still not a 3rd gen and these cars have spirit that not many cars have. Still would own a VQ30 any day of the week.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

Actually the porting I metioned, was not the heads, but the exhaust manifolds on my VG30E. Has anybody ever looked in those things? It's not the worst i've seen, but by no means great.
Only reason i'm thinking about it is because i just droped in a new motor that I rebuilt. (old one had a fierce rod-knock) When i rebuilt it, I put in some JWT stage 1 cams. So I was just thinking about any little way help out the flow-age and stuff.
I would have posted some pix of the process, but.......(insert excuse here)

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

Man, I if someone would design some shorty headers to replace just the stock exhaust manifolds for VG & VE that would be hot. they wouldn't have to be great, just flow a little better, and fit like the oem ex. manifolds. Combine that with Y.P./cat/cat-back, you'd be set. Cuz i have a feeling that there is still some power there.

Brad92SE

iTrader: (9)

If you already have the manifolds off, you could try to take out material with a dremel or die grinder, but I don't know what kind of gains you would see. The stock stuff flows decently well. The VG in my opinion is a much better candidate to go all motor with. There are more options for internals, etc. since it's straight out of a 300zx. The VE would need custom parts and would cost alot more. Who knows though, many of the parts might bolt up, I'm not that experienced in terms of what can be swapped over.

Just to pose a comment about FI reliability.... a turbo setup can be very reliable if it is done right. As long as the air/fuel mix is correct and everything (timing, etc.) is tuned properly, there is basically nothing to go wrong with the engine internally. Of course you will have increased wear and tear, but this thread is about how to go faster, do we really care? The unrelibility in FI comes in the other components of the driveline, which fail because of too much power.

VEvolution

Sorry Dillbag, I'll read more carefully next time.

This is the best thread I could find on exhaust porting... http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....haust+Manifold

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

thanks for saying that, I feel like **** now lol...I want a UDP immediately! somebody get me one now!

If you really wonder what it would feel like you can drive my car for a day and I'll drive yours

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

Hey I never ridden in a 4th gen that I remember so I cant talk on the handling but IMO I think a 4th gen looks alot nicer than a 3rd gen but then again as long as my car is a maxima, I'm happy

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

It's cool Joe.

Pickles

let it cruise

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

hey dumbarse, quit making new s/n

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

I agree, third gens are nice. Like Jeff said, the best thing about the 4th is the VQ. I'd have to say the next best thing is the potential it has as far as performance, this whole thread was started because a person can kind of run out of things to bolt on or swap into a third gen, but there's a few more options that are available w/ the fourth gen if you want to go a little further, like the DE-K is something that I can even do because there's not much custom work involved.

The 3rd gen w/ a VQ30DEK or a VQ35 would be the ideal maxima, less weight+more power=

diiesel21

iTrader: (4)

on that, it just poeple are not willing to try it

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Well there is one 3rd gen VQ that we know of, but I don't know if it's worth all of the trouble. You'de be looking at wiring/ECU issues, motor mount issues, I doubt the tranny would bolt up to the VQ and the list goes on.

If you really wanted to keep a third gen and wanted to spend time doint that much custom work you'de be better off spending your money on something else. A turbo VG takes little custom work to get going because you have the 300zx to pirate parts off of, or you could turbo a VE if you could do more custom work. Taking either of those routes are going to give you better gains for the $$$ and less hassle.

diiesel21

iTrader: (4)

well it all up to how the person feel,and plus the fact of the money issue comes in to play. but ur correct on the to much hassle part but if you paid someone to do it and have a another car to drive while ur down you good lol

Ride2kMax

iTrader: (10)

So is not posible to do a vq30dek into a 3rd gen??
I ask because a have a friend with a 3rd gen and a 5gen he's been wondering about it but he not in this forum.
I also own a 5gen so i dont know much about the 3rd gen.

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Yes, it's possible if you have enough money to fund the project..

Can we give you a step by step "how to"...No we can't...But basically everything from the 5th gen= engine/trans/electrical harnesses/etc etc.etc. has to go into the 3rd gen body..No, none of it will just "swap over" without some serious mechanical magic..

Read through this thread--> http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=557504

Someone did a vq35de swap into a 3rd gen in this thread, unfortunately, he never posted any specifics about the swap..

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

a cluster swap is also recommended when doing the DE-K swap. there is an issue with gauge outputs. IIRC.

http://internetautomart.com/gallery/VQ-in-3rd-gen