header time
11-14-2003, 02:25 PM
#1
header time
ok. like them or hate them, i got the pacesetter headers for my VG. why not, i say. so i will post here again after i have them functioning on the engine and i'll tell about it.
anyway, i have a warpspeed y-pipe and b-pipe and all of that jazz already. so it is a matter of removing the y-pipe and OEM manifolds, right? i am assuming the b-pipe stays.
and is header wrap necessary?
i read on another thread that properly fitting the O2 sensor may be problematic. i think the term was "bung hole." sounds vulgar.
anyway, i have a warpspeed y-pipe and b-pipe and all of that jazz already. so it is a matter of removing the y-pipe and OEM manifolds, right? i am assuming the b-pipe stays.
and is header wrap necessary?
i read on another thread that properly fitting the O2 sensor may be problematic. i think the term was "bung hole." sounds vulgar.
11-14-2003, 03:32 PM
#3
Originally Posted by mtcookson
i think they sad you can fit the earlier 300zx O2 sensor in there. I hooked mine up on my car today and it seems to be running fine. the ecu didn't freak out at all.
11-14-2003, 07:36 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by latinmax90
what website did u order the headers from?? and where i can get a desent price?? thanx
www.auto-exhaust.com
$100 cheaper than the pacesetter site
11-14-2003, 09:25 PM
#9
Originally Posted by LittlePiggie
mtcookson,
which wiring is longer? N/A or turbo? i'd prefer longer to allow for unforseen length issues.
if you don't know, i can always just go to autozone and look at both.
11-14-2003, 09:47 PM
#10
Well i've never dyno'd them so i wouldn't know for sure. Best guess would be that you'll lose some torque at the bottom and make it up a few ponies on top,which for street driving isn't a good idea,but my problem is not with the performance of the product,but rather the quality and craftsmanship.To realize any power change you have to get them in the car first....thats the problem with these.
The set i got came with instructions for a Fiat,had missing/extra hardware, and when installed(i actually was doing a motor swap at the time and drilled out all the old broken manifold studs and replaced them with new ones from the turbo model.They weld real crappy and often time you have to take a dremel to the primary opening in the flange cause their welds are not clean and don't promote mnax flow potential,and the mounting holes need to be drilled,so your studs can be slid onto cause they are full of weld spatter.The biggest problem with my headers was the rear header was resting right up against the steering rack.Now even though i'm a Nissan tech/ASE master certified/own a performance shop....anyone can figure out this isn't any good.The header gaskets they sent are made out of craft paper that some kindergarden class made,the stock ones are totally superior. A problem i've seen with other header kits that i saw again was the converter to front pipe gasket bolt spacing is too narrow,this gasket sucks almost as much.even if the header wouldn't have rested on the rack,i couldnt pull the front pipe up towards the front of the car. (to attach the front header)because it bottomed out on the bracket/bushing for the link that runs parallel with the shifter rod.
Now the fasteners,if you get what you need from them the first time,utilize nylon locking nuts for the ball n socket fittings....i'm no fastener genius but the nylon melts out in no time and your left with a leaky exhaust.
If you don't buy the ceramic coated headers you get the black painted ones.Now this isn't a high temp paint so it lasts about 25 minutes......they advise you of that....but what options do we have...do we take a day to install the headers,then burn the paint off...then remove them....repaint with high temp...or do we take 6 hours to remove the paint they apply?doesn't make sense.I had problems with all the headers i bought from them.I sold my brothers girlfriend an x pipe for her mustang.....the damn thing had hangers missing that seemed like they were once there but got cut off.Their front pipe also doesn't utilize a flex joint...important.
I emailed pacesetter....no replies......called them and was told they'd call me back later...never called back.....i emailed pictures....no replies.I could go on but you get the point.
Another thing about headers......the maxima's are known for broken exhaust studs...and even though they are still there.....they are either broken and hanging there or they will break when you remove them.....you are talking serious labor to change all those studs cause if you remove the manifold you have to change every stud!
So i would never buy pacesetter,unless:nobody else makes a header kit for this car,and you are building an all out race car and have big big money and serious time to invest into "prepping"these things for installation.
I do alot of stuff from supercharged Tacoma's to 1000 horse mustangs.From what i've seen.......the headers are nowhere worth the BS.
Any more questions feel free to pm me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just some advice i gave someone recently.
And the point i replied to this thread.....these headers utilize a unique flange location and y pipe.......warpspeed y pipe or any other (designed for use with stock manifolds)will not work,not even close.Returned the crap,canceled the cat-back i ordered from them,quit selling their parts.
Got Torque?
The set i got came with instructions for a Fiat,had missing/extra hardware, and when installed(i actually was doing a motor swap at the time and drilled out all the old broken manifold studs and replaced them with new ones from the turbo model.They weld real crappy and often time you have to take a dremel to the primary opening in the flange cause their welds are not clean and don't promote mnax flow potential,and the mounting holes need to be drilled,so your studs can be slid onto cause they are full of weld spatter.The biggest problem with my headers was the rear header was resting right up against the steering rack.Now even though i'm a Nissan tech/ASE master certified/own a performance shop....anyone can figure out this isn't any good.The header gaskets they sent are made out of craft paper that some kindergarden class made,the stock ones are totally superior. A problem i've seen with other header kits that i saw again was the converter to front pipe gasket bolt spacing is too narrow,this gasket sucks almost as much.even if the header wouldn't have rested on the rack,i couldnt pull the front pipe up towards the front of the car. (to attach the front header)because it bottomed out on the bracket/bushing for the link that runs parallel with the shifter rod.
Now the fasteners,if you get what you need from them the first time,utilize nylon locking nuts for the ball n socket fittings....i'm no fastener genius but the nylon melts out in no time and your left with a leaky exhaust.
If you don't buy the ceramic coated headers you get the black painted ones.Now this isn't a high temp paint so it lasts about 25 minutes......they advise you of that....but what options do we have...do we take a day to install the headers,then burn the paint off...then remove them....repaint with high temp...or do we take 6 hours to remove the paint they apply?doesn't make sense.I had problems with all the headers i bought from them.I sold my brothers girlfriend an x pipe for her mustang.....the damn thing had hangers missing that seemed like they were once there but got cut off.Their front pipe also doesn't utilize a flex joint...important.
I emailed pacesetter....no replies......called them and was told they'd call me back later...never called back.....i emailed pictures....no replies.I could go on but you get the point.
Another thing about headers......the maxima's are known for broken exhaust studs...and even though they are still there.....they are either broken and hanging there or they will break when you remove them.....you are talking serious labor to change all those studs cause if you remove the manifold you have to change every stud!
So i would never buy pacesetter,unless:nobody else makes a header kit for this car,and you are building an all out race car and have big big money and serious time to invest into "prepping"these things for installation.
I do alot of stuff from supercharged Tacoma's to 1000 horse mustangs.From what i've seen.......the headers are nowhere worth the BS.
Any more questions feel free to pm me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just some advice i gave someone recently.
And the point i replied to this thread.....these headers utilize a unique flange location and y pipe.......warpspeed y pipe or any other (designed for use with stock manifolds)will not work,not even close.Returned the crap,canceled the cat-back i ordered from them,quit selling their parts.
Got Torque?
11-14-2003, 09:52 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by bonzelite
www.ssautochrome.com has them as well. i got mine for like $195 on their auction.
mtcookson,
which wiring is longer? N/A or turbo? i'd prefer longer to allow for unforseen length issues.
if you don't know, i can always just go to autozone and look at both.
mtcookson,
which wiring is longer? N/A or turbo? i'd prefer longer to allow for unforseen length issues.
if you don't know, i can always just go to autozone and look at both.
all you need is 20 inches at the most man, it's not really that long. I heard one of them was like 40 inches long or something crazy like that...I'd watch it...
11-15-2003, 01:30 AM
#13
pros and cons
for me, treating the headers, prep, all of that is not really a deal-breaker. the parts are cheap to begin with, so i don't mind spending extra to prep them. who cares. you buy a car model kit and it does not include paint or glue. and i don't care. if pacesetter's customer service sucks, then that is too bad for them as a company. they will probably ultimately burn in he*lL for that. as for me, i can rig the pipes to work with some help. and i am not a dealer or seller of their products. were i a parts distributor/seller, then i may sing a different tune. i would probably drop them like bad-tasting horsesh*it.
what raises concern is the prospect of losing lo-end torque. i don't like that. i do care about that. that disturbs me profoundly. so now i am left thinking... wtf now?
what raises concern is the prospect of losing lo-end torque. i don't like that. i do care about that. that disturbs me profoundly. so now i am left thinking... wtf now?
11-15-2003, 11:41 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by bonzelite
for me, treating the headers, prep, all of that is not really a deal-breaker. the parts are cheap to begin with, so i don't mind spending extra to prep them. who cares. you buy a car model kit and it does not include paint or glue. and i don't care. if pacesetter's customer service sucks, then that is too bad for them as a company. they will probably ultimately burn in he*lL for that. as for me, i can rig the pipes to work with some help. and i am not a dealer or seller of their products. were i a parts distributor/seller, then i may sing a different tune. i would probably drop them like bad-tasting horsesh*it.
what raises concern is the prospect of losing lo-end torque. i don't like that. i do care about that. that disturbs me profoundly. so now i am left thinking... wtf now?
what raises concern is the prospect of losing lo-end torque. i don't like that. i do care about that. that disturbs me profoundly. so now i am left thinking... wtf now?
well, to make more torque down low, just decrease the diameter of the capillary tubes. headers aren't really meant for low end anyway
so hey...
11-16-2003, 08:43 PM
#18
11-16-2003, 08:56 PM
#19
stepped pipes
Originally Posted by mtcookson
anyway, i see the point of the "stepped" header design: you keep some of the "backpressure-ish" traits of the OEM restricted manifolds (to keep some of the brief, low-end torque at lower rpm) crossed with the hi-flow header concept for notable mid rpm torque gain. be great if they made them for the maxima (unless i am overlooking something).
11-17-2003, 02:10 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Goodbar6
When i installed a header on my old 240SX, i noticed almost no drop in low end grunt. The mid range was so much nicer, that it was worth it.
this curiosity is pushing me evermore to execute this plan, as here in my living room the headers sit waiting. quietly beckoning...
11-17-2003, 02:15 AM
#22
since our engines are already very torquy i would say try it out and see what you think first hand. if we had a little honda 4 cylinder or worse a rotary (excluding 20B and above 
) i would try to make as much low end torque as i could. since we start out good we have some room to lose torque since i'm sure losses are minimal.
) i would try to make as much low end torque as i could. since we start out good we have some room to lose torque since i'm sure losses are minimal.
Should I put headers on my Mustang?
11-17-2003, 05:17 AM
#24
fear of loss
i think that if i hate the headers, i can always put the y-pipe back on and be on my merry way. that would be quite a PIA, yes, but i'd swap it back if i really really thought the headers were a mistake.
personally, i love low-end torque. and i am reluctant to give away any more of it. but i have a feeling that it will *probably* not be that much of a BFD. perhaps there is somewhat of a header hysteria, a cult of fear involved.
i think the fear of the prospect of making a big, perhaps embarrassing, mistake prevents many from doing this bolt-on moreso than total cost. so i'm going to do it. and if it sucks, then i will make a thread about how they suck. and we can all laugh about it; its only a car.
personally, i love low-end torque. and i am reluctant to give away any more of it. but i have a feeling that it will *probably* not be that much of a BFD. perhaps there is somewhat of a header hysteria, a cult of fear involved.
i think the fear of the prospect of making a big, perhaps embarrassing, mistake prevents many from doing this bolt-on moreso than total cost. so i'm going to do it. and if it sucks, then i will make a thread about how they suck. and we can all laugh about it; its only a car.
11-17-2003, 05:22 AM
#25
exactly...i think people are worried way too much about a torque loss that would/will probably not even be noticable
Originally Posted by mtcookson
since our engines are already very torquy i would say try it out and see what you think first hand. if we had a little honda 4 cylinder or worse a rotary (excluding 20B and above ) i would try to make as much low end torque as i could. since we start out good we have some room to lose torque since i'm sure losses are minimal.
) i would try to make as much low end torque as i could. since we start out good we have some room to lose torque since i'm sure losses are minimal.
11-17-2003, 06:55 AM
#26
as for whether to go or not go, it's up to you..
I highly suggest getting a few runs on a dyno before and after, just to see what they do. it'll cost you another $80 or so, but you'll know EXACTLY where the power gains and drops on them, and you can report the results.
I wouldn't worry about losing low-end torque anyway- especially on a 5 spd.
how often are you below 2500-3000rpm when you're trying to run the car hard. losing a bit of power means nothing to daily driving, and only really means something if you're concerned about driving around at 30mph in traffic in 4th gear.
If you've got a problem with low-end torque, then downshift. it's as easy as that!
As for the O2 sensor, the one that I've got from an 86 VG30ET is only about a foot long. look at the NA ones and you shouldn't have a problem.
I highly suggest getting a few runs on a dyno before and after, just to see what they do. it'll cost you another $80 or so, but you'll know EXACTLY where the power gains and drops on them, and you can report the results.
I wouldn't worry about losing low-end torque anyway- especially on a 5 spd.
how often are you below 2500-3000rpm when you're trying to run the car hard. losing a bit of power means nothing to daily driving, and only really means something if you're concerned about driving around at 30mph in traffic in 4th gear.
If you've got a problem with low-end torque, then downshift. it's as easy as that!
As for the O2 sensor, the one that I've got from an 86 VG30ET is only about a foot long. look at the NA ones and you shouldn't have a problem.
11-17-2003, 09:32 AM
#27
dyno school
yes. thank you, matt. my intuition, as well as others, was generally beginning to figure out what to actually expect out of headers. you sort of closed the deal.
doing dyno runs in this case is probably a good idea for the general education of anyone interested in this area, as well as for my own awareness. in so doing, i will discover, at this point, what all of the mods i have done to the car have done for me: CAI, y-pipe, b-pipe, cat, magnaflow, ground wires, fidanza.
my quest now is multi-fold: i must find a means to coat the headers -either ceramically or with hi-temp paint. and i must acquire an older 300ZX O2 sensor with wire. then i must find a shop with a dyno machine.
this may be a case, too, where this particular thread may "die" for a while in the interim. i will then endeavor to revive the thread, bring it back from the dead, and post dyno results complete with a running commentary of my experience.
doing dyno runs in this case is probably a good idea for the general education of anyone interested in this area, as well as for my own awareness. in so doing, i will discover, at this point, what all of the mods i have done to the car have done for me: CAI, y-pipe, b-pipe, cat, magnaflow, ground wires, fidanza.
my quest now is multi-fold: i must find a means to coat the headers -either ceramically or with hi-temp paint. and i must acquire an older 300ZX O2 sensor with wire. then i must find a shop with a dyno machine.
this may be a case, too, where this particular thread may "die" for a while in the interim. i will then endeavor to revive the thread, bring it back from the dead, and post dyno results complete with a running commentary of my experience.
11-18-2003, 02:26 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
As for the O2 sensor, the one that I've got from an 86 VG30ET is only about a foot long. look at the NA ones and you shouldn't have a problem.
Although, I could be wrong and it could just be the ecu flipping out from reading such a rich fuel mixture...
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