VQ30 HP record?
12-20-2005, 05:54 AM
#4
12-20-2005, 11:58 AM
#7
538whp 603tq (10/15/04) 
11.9 @ 124.9mph with 1.88 60' low boost (11/7/04)
http://www.dynomagic.com/maxima/thefast_hlh.htm
11.9 @ 124.9mph with 1.88 60' low boost (11/7/04)
http://www.dynomagic.com/maxima/thefast_hlh.htm
12-20-2005, 03:58 PM
#8
Originally Posted by SPiG
538whp 603tq (10/15/04)
11.9 @ 124.9mph with 1.88 60' low boost (11/7/04)
http://www.dynomagic.com/maxima/thefast_hlh.htm
11.9 @ 124.9mph with 1.88 60' low boost (11/7/04)
http://www.dynomagic.com/maxima/thefast_hlh.htm
12-20-2005, 04:38 PM
#10
Originally Posted by MardiGrasMax
I pulled 428h/379t with a Vortech V1 and 35 shot of juice. 100% OE stock motor original to the car.
Hal pulled more on a short dyno pull.
Hal pulled more on a short dyno pull.
12-20-2005, 04:42 PM
#12
I believe so but you have to ask Neal about it, I know he isn't running nitrous(still hook up for it?) and he had a minor blown HG last time I heard. There is a streetfire.net video where Neal beat a ZO6 on the freeway. It was pretty cool.
12-20-2005, 06:08 PM
#13
So.. if someone made 603wtq.. I think it's safe to say that the engine will hold at least 600whp or so..
I'm build a S13 right now.. and I'm going to break the record on stock block. Turbo will be a Precision SC61 (S-cover and .82 4 bolt hot side) Stock block with VQ35 heads (8.5:1 C/R) I'll be using a Z33 trans.. JWT ECU with 750cc injectors and Ford Lightning MAF.
Travis
I'm build a S13 right now.. and I'm going to break the record on stock block. Turbo will be a Precision SC61 (S-cover and .82 4 bolt hot side) Stock block with VQ35 heads (8.5:1 C/R) I'll be using a Z33 trans.. JWT ECU with 750cc injectors and Ford Lightning MAF.
Travis
12-20-2005, 07:00 PM
#14
I would get the 100 octane program if you go with a JWT ECU turbo program and expect to make good power. I thought they didn't have a program for the Lightning MAF or the 740cc injectors for the Maxima yet. I thought that is what they told Mardigras when he wanted it.
12-20-2005, 08:19 PM
#16
Originally Posted by SPiG
I would get the 100 octane program if you go with a JWT ECU turbo program and expect to make good power. I thought they didn't have a program for the Lightning MAF or the 740cc injectors for the Maxima yet. I thought that is what they told Mardigras when he wanted it.
12-20-2005, 08:30 PM
#17
Originally Posted by SPiG
I would get the 100 octane program if you go with a JWT ECU turbo program and expect to make good power. I thought they didn't have a program for the Lightning MAF or the 740cc injectors for the Maxima yet. I thought that is what they told Mardigras when he wanted it.
I am going to work with Clark to get it going..Travis
12-20-2005, 08:31 PM
#18
Originally Posted by MardiGrasMax
Stock block or stock short block?
Travis
12-21-2005, 09:41 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
Travis,
I wish you'd consider keeping it all stock, as in completely virgin, untouched 3.0 long block from the bottom to the top. The reason: as far as I know nobody really know's what a VQ can hold and what will break first when properly tuned. It would be easier for you (less work), cheaper (atleast until it breaks) and would really be helpful for the VQ30 community.
Just my .02 cents.
allen
I wish you'd consider keeping it all stock, as in completely virgin, untouched 3.0 long block from the bottom to the top. The reason: as far as I know nobody really know's what a VQ can hold and what will break first when properly tuned. It would be easier for you (less work), cheaper (atleast until it breaks) and would really be helpful for the VQ30 community.
Just my .02 cents.
allen
12-21-2005, 11:49 AM
#22
Moderator who thinks he is better than us with his I30
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by allen22
I think it should w/no problem but I have no proof.
allen
allen
Hal went through several motors making the power he did. Neal has already gone through 2.
12-21-2005, 12:46 PM
#23
I think ARP head studs and a reliable tune and fuel setup would make all the difference in the world. Some cooling mods i.e. lower thermostat wouldn't hurt either.
I am saying run the 100 octane program on normal pump gas since the normal JWT turbo program is designed to lose power. You could put on a water/alcohol injection kit or even J&S Safeguard if you were having pinging problems.
Neal/Hal's car is interesting since in both cases they are running secondary injectors of some kind. Presently IIRC Neal is running some kind of secondary injectors on top of his 370cc's and Hal used to run with stock injectors, FMU, and overcompensated with a Wet Nitrous kit. Although Neal's solution is MUCH better in terms of reliability, neither is really great for our dry manifolds. I would not doubt that the vast majority of the blown VQ30s on the org were from tuning and/or fuel problems since tuning with our ECUs is just recently becoming a relatively simple task.
if you pay for the gas, i'm sure he'd go for it.
Neal/Hal's car is interesting since in both cases they are running secondary injectors of some kind. Presently IIRC Neal is running some kind of secondary injectors on top of his 370cc's and Hal used to run with stock injectors, FMU, and overcompensated with a Wet Nitrous kit. Although Neal's solution is MUCH better in terms of reliability, neither is really great for our dry manifolds. I would not doubt that the vast majority of the blown VQ30s on the org were from tuning and/or fuel problems since tuning with our ECUs is just recently becoming a relatively simple task.
12-21-2005, 01:09 PM
#25
Originally Posted by I30tMikeD
Hal went through several motors making the power he did. Neal has already gone through 2.
Hal went through several motors because of the way he tuned them... He was using a nitrous nozzle for fuel enrichment under boost... Crude by any means of measurement.
The reason I am using VQ35 heads.. is to lower the compression ratio.. and I get a little better flow too. I think that the bottom end will hold for a while.. We'll find out though.. soon.
Travis
12-21-2005, 01:10 PM
#26
Originally Posted by SPiG
I think ARP head studs and a reliable tune and fuel setup would make all the difference in the world. Some cooling mods i.e. lower thermostat wouldn't hurt either.
I am saying run the 100 octane program on normal pump gas since the normal JWT turbo program is designed to lose power. You could put on a water/alcohol injection kit or even J&S Safeguard if you were having pinging problems.
Neal/Hal's car is interesting since in both cases they are running secondary injectors of some kind. Presently IIRC Neal is running some kind of secondary injectors on top of his 370cc's and Hal used to run with stock injectors, FMU, and overcompensated with a Wet Nitrous kit. Although Neal's solution is MUCH better in terms of reliability, neither is really great for our dry manifolds. I would not doubt that the vast majority of the blown VQ30s on the org were from tuning and/or fuel problems since tuning with our ECUs is just recently becoming a relatively simple task.
I am saying run the 100 octane program on normal pump gas since the normal JWT turbo program is designed to lose power. You could put on a water/alcohol injection kit or even J&S Safeguard if you were having pinging problems.
Neal/Hal's car is interesting since in both cases they are running secondary injectors of some kind. Presently IIRC Neal is running some kind of secondary injectors on top of his 370cc's and Hal used to run with stock injectors, FMU, and overcompensated with a Wet Nitrous kit. Although Neal's solution is MUCH better in terms of reliability, neither is really great for our dry manifolds. I would not doubt that the vast majority of the blown VQ30s on the org were from tuning and/or fuel problems since tuning with our ECUs is just recently becoming a relatively simple task.
Travis
12-21-2005, 01:25 PM
#27
Originally Posted by MardiGrasMax
I pulled 428h/379t with a Vortech V1 and 35 shot of juice. 100% OE stock motor original to the car.
Hal pulled more on a short dyno pull.
Hal pulled more on a short dyno pull.
12-21-2005, 01:32 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by I30tMikeD
Hal went through several motors making the power he
did. Neal has already gone through 2.
did. Neal has already gone through 2.
Another thing that Neal could use safety wise is Meth Injection and a knock light. Detonation is what killed Neal's engines and Hal's IIRC. Methanol injection will greatly decrease his chances of detonation, assuming a good tune.
If his plans come to fruition, I can see his car making 450+ whp reliabliy.
12-21-2005, 02:09 PM
#29
its built but its high HP
http://vbxmaxima.8m.com/500HPVQ.html
http://vbxmaxima.8m.com/500HPVQ.html
12-21-2005, 02:51 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by TurboS13Hatch
Both of them broke pistons... correct? If that's the case.. 9 times out of 10, that's from detonation.. Which can be prevented. If SR20 guys can make 550whp on stock, cast pistons.. then there's no reason we can't do it with lowered compression on VQ pistons.
Travis
Travis
That's kind of the way I look at it too, with a whole liter more displacement 500hp should be cake. Not to offend anyone but I kinda wonder if anyone has properly tuned one of these at this kind of hp level.
allen
12-21-2005, 03:23 PM
#31
from wat i have noticed it seems that many of the high hp failures we have had might have been due to tunning issues and not really wit the motor itself.... i would like to see how far this motor will go and wat will break first and at wat hp level
12-21-2005, 03:32 PM
#32
Originally Posted by liqidvenom
from wat i have noticed it seems that many of the high hp failures we have had might have been due to tunning issues and not really wit the motor itself.... i would like to see how far this motor will go and wat will break first and at wat hp level
I agree, all of the problems have been because of bad tunes. I would like to see what a 3.0 can really do on a good tune. My thought is close to 600
12-21-2005, 05:14 PM
#34
Originally Posted by DrKlop
May I ask you, what mileage did you have back than and how many miles do you have now?
I am proud to say that that motor was used from day one and she took one heluva beating and lived! I give full credit to J&S Electronics Ultra Safeguard for the motor surviving. A $500 investment in electronics is much better than a new motor every six months!
12-21-2005, 05:55 PM
#35
I need to clarify a few things about my car which used to be Hal's. He was originally running stock injectors and then it is my understanding he was supplying extra fuel through nitrous fuel jets, using them as makeshift "supplemental" injectors. Then at the same time he put the new piping setup on the car he switched over to using these twin RC750s in addition to six 370s in the stock fuel rail. The car still has the same fuel injector setup that it did when I purchased it from him. This setup is not ideal in my mind because I don't believe our intake manifold distributes fuel evenly to all of the cylinders, but I've been concentrating on other things up until now and it will get addressed in the spring when I start running DeatschWerks injectors as my only source of fuel, scrapping the auxiliary injectors.
I also think that people use the term "blown motor" rather loosely. While it is true that I will be pulling the motor out of the car again in the spring (not now because it's cold out), all it has is a blown headgasket. All the previous motor had was a blown headgasket - blown not simply because of power but because of the fact that my MAP sensor was not plugged in to the emanage correctly, resulting in the auxiliary injectors not even spraying fuel. I was making 1/4 mile passes at the track at what probably is in excess of 15:1 AFR, and the headgasket let go. I drove the car an hour and a half home. There was no catastrophic failure due to power, because frankly the tuning setup was not working at all at the time and I wasn't making that much power anyways, only trapping 115 on 12psi, probably like 370/370 to the wheels I'd estimate. I went out and drove the car with two cylinders at 50 compression because I knew the motor would be coming out anyways. I beat on the car for a night, making probably 20 back to back to back blasts through 3rd, 4th and sometimes 5th gear, taking videos, just seeing how long the thing would hold out. All of the above was done without a wideband because I didn't have one at the time.
In some cars blown headgaskets are an easy couple hour fix, unfortunately given the shape and dimensions of the Maxima engine compartment, the fact that the rear bank headgasket is blown (hardest to get to), our complicated to remove timing chain setup, and the fact that I am going to be installing a new clutch and probably doing some more extensive work on my already built transmission, installation of an 00VI, installation of a new PS pump, all mean that it is far easier to just yank the engine than keep the same engine in there, and do a bunch of work around it. Yanking the engine in this car because of the lack of emissions equipment and exhaust piping is much easier than a "normal" maxima turbo setup. I can have the old motor out and new motor in in less than a day. It'd take the same amount of time to change the rear headgasket, probably more since I've never done it before.
I don't know how many motors Hal ever had in the car, we all know it was a good number of them, but I suspect most if not all of the motors he ever had in the car were "blown" in this fashion, or removed for other reasons entirely, not catastrophic failures due to HP. I do know for a fact he blew a headgasket on the dyno while spraying on the current setup, which results in a yanked motor, and just prior to me buying the car he put a new motor in it because the waterpump died on the previous one, again pulling a motor which has undoubtedly seen alot of power run through it is just as easy and probably smarter than replacing one failed part after another (it's the motor he dynod on and went to the track on in October 2004).
My point in all this is that I believe most "blown" VQs removed from and replaced in maximas are not the result of raw power, but because of less than ideal (or in some cases just plain poor) tuning and or supporting mod setups. I don't think we've really come all that close to seeing what sort of power is the failure point of the motor. My guess is that its upwards of 600-650 lb-ft of torque, but that's really just sortof an educated shot in the dark because no one with a very well monitored, ideal setup has been in that area on a stock motor that I know of. Mardi could have gotten there if he chose to I'm sure but when your built 3.5 is sitting in the garage waiting to be installed, pushing the limits just for the heck of it on your stock motor seems like a waste of time.
Me personally, I don't like replacing motors even though it's really pretty easy, so I'm going to continue trying to improve on the setup of my car to make big power more reliably.
I also think that people use the term "blown motor" rather loosely. While it is true that I will be pulling the motor out of the car again in the spring (not now because it's cold out), all it has is a blown headgasket. All the previous motor had was a blown headgasket - blown not simply because of power but because of the fact that my MAP sensor was not plugged in to the emanage correctly, resulting in the auxiliary injectors not even spraying fuel. I was making 1/4 mile passes at the track at what probably is in excess of 15:1 AFR, and the headgasket let go. I drove the car an hour and a half home. There was no catastrophic failure due to power, because frankly the tuning setup was not working at all at the time and I wasn't making that much power anyways, only trapping 115 on 12psi, probably like 370/370 to the wheels I'd estimate. I went out and drove the car with two cylinders at 50 compression because I knew the motor would be coming out anyways. I beat on the car for a night, making probably 20 back to back to back blasts through 3rd, 4th and sometimes 5th gear, taking videos, just seeing how long the thing would hold out. All of the above was done without a wideband because I didn't have one at the time.
In some cars blown headgaskets are an easy couple hour fix, unfortunately given the shape and dimensions of the Maxima engine compartment, the fact that the rear bank headgasket is blown (hardest to get to), our complicated to remove timing chain setup, and the fact that I am going to be installing a new clutch and probably doing some more extensive work on my already built transmission, installation of an 00VI, installation of a new PS pump, all mean that it is far easier to just yank the engine than keep the same engine in there, and do a bunch of work around it. Yanking the engine in this car because of the lack of emissions equipment and exhaust piping is much easier than a "normal" maxima turbo setup. I can have the old motor out and new motor in in less than a day. It'd take the same amount of time to change the rear headgasket, probably more since I've never done it before.
I don't know how many motors Hal ever had in the car, we all know it was a good number of them, but I suspect most if not all of the motors he ever had in the car were "blown" in this fashion, or removed for other reasons entirely, not catastrophic failures due to HP. I do know for a fact he blew a headgasket on the dyno while spraying on the current setup, which results in a yanked motor, and just prior to me buying the car he put a new motor in it because the waterpump died on the previous one, again pulling a motor which has undoubtedly seen alot of power run through it is just as easy and probably smarter than replacing one failed part after another (it's the motor he dynod on and went to the track on in October 2004).
My point in all this is that I believe most "blown" VQs removed from and replaced in maximas are not the result of raw power, but because of less than ideal (or in some cases just plain poor) tuning and or supporting mod setups. I don't think we've really come all that close to seeing what sort of power is the failure point of the motor. My guess is that its upwards of 600-650 lb-ft of torque, but that's really just sortof an educated shot in the dark because no one with a very well monitored, ideal setup has been in that area on a stock motor that I know of. Mardi could have gotten there if he chose to I'm sure but when your built 3.5 is sitting in the garage waiting to be installed, pushing the limits just for the heck of it on your stock motor seems like a waste of time.
Me personally, I don't like replacing motors even though it's really pretty easy, so I'm going to continue trying to improve on the setup of my car to make big power more reliably.
very interesting. um.......
12-24-2005, 03:45 AM
#39
Originally Posted by MardiGrasMax
Compression readings were in the 210's at 35k, when I took the motor out they were 190's. So power does eat rings.
12-24-2005, 08:09 AM
#40
Also it's hard to get compression #s to be repeatably the same each time you test it unless you do the exactly the same number of cranks each time, have the block and cylinder head temps exactly the same each time, etc. I was doing compression tests about every day, or every other day, at one point just out of curiosity and the numbers would fluctuate 10 psi or so without the car even having been in boost between the tests.