Disappointing run. Thoughts?

*JUDE* · 01-11-2009, 02:42 AM

I ran at Palm Beach Raceway (Moroso) for the first time since they remodeled it. The last time I ran, about two years ago, i ran a best of 15.3 @ 90mph with just intake & Y pipe.

This time, I had a one inch drop, a midpipe and an exhaust added on, so I thought for sure that I would break into the 14s. I had two runs and they were both 15.7 @ 90. Very disappointing to say the least.

Only difference is a little more weight from leather powers seats from cloth seats last time, but the stillen exhaust should be lighter then stock and offset some of that. I also had my CEL on this time and its for the O2 sensor. Would that make the difference?

I'm honestly ready to sell the car after this so any help would be appreciated.

*SonicDust187* · 01-11-2009, 07:37 AM

Post up the slip.

95BLKMAX · 01-11-2009, 08:30 AM

yea post up the time slip and also the slip from the last time you went for comparison.

Moroso was never a nicely prepped track to start with, Im not sure after the remodel, as I have not been there since Nov 07.

A catback exhaust on a 3.0 really doesnt add much power to take you from 15.2 to "breaking 14s-worthy". Better driving does more than a catback.

How's your Knock sensor doing? Clutch slipping perhaps?

Gotta see the time slips to compare the all important 60' times!

*JUDE* · 01-11-2009, 09:18 AM

Pulled the slips, first things, My last run was in March 2004, so its five years and not two years ago. had no CEL back then and was still on stock clutch. This one was a remanufactured clutch from Nissan that was installed about three years ago. Here are the numbers:

March 6, 2004

R/T- .864
60' - 2.339
330 - 6.502
1/8 - 9.904
mph - 72.40
1000- 12.817
1/4 - 15.272
mph - 90.49

January 9, 2009

R/T- .450
60' - 2.478
330 - 6.771
1/8 - 10.275
mph - 70.17
1000- 13.257
1/4 - 15.749
mph - 90.47

kzoosho · 01-11-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JUDE

Pulled the slips, first things, My last run was in March 2004, so its five years and not two years ago. had no CEL back then and was still on stock clutch. This one was a remanufactured clutch from Nissan that was installed about three years ago. Here are the numbers:

March 6, 2004

R/T- .864
60' - 2.339
330 - 6.502
1/8 - 9.904
mph - 72.40
1000- 12.817
1/4 - 15.272
mph - 90.49

January 9, 2009

R/T- .450
60' - 2.478
330 - 6.771
1/8 - 10.275
mph - 70.17
1000- 13.257
1/4 - 15.749
mph - 90.47

Get that 60 ft down and you can be closer to what you ran before.

PulsarGTS · 01-11-2009, 09:53 AM

^^^
What he said. And I'd be happy that the car still traps the same speed as before after 5 years of additional miles.

**Nealoc187** · 01-11-2009, 10:00 AM

your launching skills have deteriorated since 5 years ago. get those back and you'll be running just as well as you did before or better.

95BLKMAX · 01-11-2009, 10:52 AM

FYI, with a 2.3 60', back in 05 with my 3.0 with just UDP/y-pipe and intake, it did 15.2 @ 92mph.

a re-man clutch? wow. I see a potential problem there lol. Do you have any wheel-hop when you launch? wheelhop is a diff bearing killer and of course bad for times

I assume this was on street tires. What wheel/tire combo and what pressure did you run them at the track? did you add a sound system or something since 5 yrs ago?

96blkonblkse · 01-11-2009, 05:15 PM

Your traps are kinda low too. Id expect more around a 92-93mph with I/Y.

Is your Knock Sensor okay? Test it, because it will not trip the CEL.

Oh and if your 60fts were closer to what they were 5 years ago, i think youd be much closer to your original time!

*Tatanko* · 01-11-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96blkonblkse

Your traps are kinda low too. Id expect more around a 92-93mph with I/Y.

I trapped 90 MPH with just a y-pipe on my old automatic car a couple years ago.

**nismology** · 01-11-2009, 06:27 PM

The fact that you gained 2 more MPH in the last 1/8 over the original run is a good sign. Like everyone else has said, improve your launch and you should be able to at least match the first run.

*JUDE* · 01-11-2009, 06:38 PM

No wheel hop. Thought my lunch was pretty good. The 2-3 shift had a slight slip, but I didn't think enough to make a difference.
Knock sensor threw a code about 8-10 months ago and was replaced with a brand new one.
I use 16in SE wheels and BF Goodrich G force tires at 32psi which is the tire pressure used originally.

Maximum I · 01-12-2009, 09:54 AM

i would try dropping the tire pressure down a bit. you should def. be doing better times then that and also w/ the clutch slipping from 2-3 that although not having too much to do w/ such a time loss also adds on. little things add up.

95BLKMAX · 01-12-2009, 02:12 PM

Go down to 22psi and try it again at Countyline Raceway and work out your launches before returning to moroso

Grand_hustle17 · 01-12-2009, 05:03 PM

i was trapping 91mph in my auto 4th gen................. ur problem is most definately 60'.... car should be able to do 14's with a 2.0 60'

Derek97GLE · 01-12-2009, 09:32 PM

Do you recall the weather during each of those two separate trips? Temp, Humidity, and Barometric pressure all affect density altitude, which definitely affects performance.

Being that your trap speeds are almost identical, I'd say most of your loss is in your short time. Get that 60-ft down and the elapsed time will follow. If you could run 15.2 with a 2.3 60ft, 14s are a reality with a 2.0 60-ft.

On the upside, your reaction time was alot better in run #2.

**nismology** · 01-13-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek97GLE

Being that your trap speeds are almost identical, I'd say most of your loss is in your short time.

Notice that his 1/8 trap speed was down more than 2 MPH but he still ended up going 90+ through the 1/4 trap. He's accelerating harder at speed than before.

MaximaSpd85 · 01-13-2009, 11:18 AM

or it could just be a quicker 2-3 shift than before, thats somewhere around 70 mph i think. but who knows...

i suggest lowering the tire pressue to 25 or lower and try it out!

**nismology** · 01-13-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaximaSpd85

or it could just be a quicker 2-3 shift than before, thats somewhere around 70 mph i think. but who knows...

Or better weather.

Derek97GLE · 01-13-2009, 12:29 PM

Couldn't that lower 1/8 mile trap just be a result of the weaker 60-ft? Being that the trap speed is measured with photocells over a certain distance, the car simply wasn't "charging" at the same rate that it was on the previous run, thanks to the weak start.

I really, really love blaming the weather but I would think that, although it may have played a role, it couldn't have been that much of a role given that the 1/4 traps were very similar.

These are purely guesses. I really don't pay enough attention to my own 1/8 mile numbers (as I should be doing) to understand how real time variables are affecting them.

**nismology** · 01-13-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek97GLE

Couldn't that lower 1/8 mile trap just be a result of the weaker 60-ft? Being that the trap speed is measured with photocells over a certain distance, the car simply wasn't "charging" at the same rate that it was on the previous run, thanks to the weak start.

I'm not speculating as to why the 1/8 trap was weak. My point is that by gaining more speed within the same distance (last 1/8) it says that for w/e reason his average acceleration was better the second time around.

*321VQ35MAX* · 01-14-2009, 06:47 AM

IMO - Drive it more. It sounds like it has been a while since you raced the car. How is your driving been since the last time?? I know from experience that my times range up and down based on how often I run the car. And honestly I have been disapointed with my times as well. I have an 03 6 speed with just Injen CAI. My best run is 14.7 @ 95.03 mph. Many people on this forum say that I should run 14.2-14.5 with same set up. I have had a horrible run and parked my car for the night and been very frustrated. Then the next week I just go and work harder on my launching and shifting and sometimes it is better than others. Bottom line is my friends and I have fun, and I know that I can beat most honda's that don't have motor swaps. LOL...

*JUDE* · 01-14-2009, 10:42 AM

Ther worst thing for me is that the butt dyno told me that she was faster. Then I bring her out and I run what I ran when I was stock. I'm going to get the O2 fixed and bring her back maybe when they have a street car only night where you can get multiple runs. The last time they had one of those i got 7 runs in. One ever 10-15 minutes

Derek97GLE · 01-14-2009, 01:18 PM

If you handle the traction issue, you'll be fine. I think 14-second timeslips are a reality with a 2.0 60-ft and good weather.

*321VQ35MAX* · 01-14-2009, 01:35 PM

2.0 60 foot times are hard for me to get. I will be the first to admit that, I run on street tires on the 17" TE rims, drop the pressure to about 22-24 lbs, but I just spin for a while no matter how I launch. My best 60 foot is a mid 2.1, I don't remember the exact. But I know that I need struts and my mount inserts replaced. After that I hope I can catch a 2.0 60 foot. Good luck with the changes.

*JUDE* · 01-25-2009, 10:26 AM

Just found out that my Oil pressure switch went bad and was leaking a lot of oil. Would that have helped cause some bad runs?

I think I heard somewhere that when a car is leaking oil, its like a human who is bleeding, you're not at 100%

The Russian · 01-27-2009, 03:20 PM

I had a i/y/e/udp and i kept running low 15's ...15.1.15.0 blah blah....i got coilovers, and new tires....and ran a 14.8....maybe it was the confidence i had in myself....but had no wheel hop!!! lol

edit: that was with the 3.0 while it ran haha

*Scottwax* · 01-27-2009, 09:59 PM

Same trap speed so your power is the same. Could have just been a colder track than the last time affected your 60' times.

arcpolo · 02-21-2009, 09:45 AM

I guess FWD car is harder to launch and get traction unless you have some sticky tires up front. 1/4 mile is all about launching. 60 ft is where it is at. if you can cut down close to 2.0 or better, you will hit mid 14s for sure. But adding exhaust and all the other garbage on an NA car doesnt really give much of a performance for these cars, so why bother, except make the car louder and what not. Not add a downpipe on a turbo car will get an instant 50-60 hp gain for sure. Dropping the car 2" is for sure gonna hurt your launching if not killing your 60ft. you probably have stiffer springs or lower suspension for looks and not 1/4 is all about. you want to have a soft suspension and load on the front to help traction and in your case, it will be the opposite. Thats why there are drag setups and road coarse setups and they are totally different, its hard to do both well. Good luck

95BLKMAX · 02-21-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcpolo

I guess FWD car is harder to launch and get traction unless you have some sticky tires up front. 1/4 mile is all about launching. 60 ft is where it is at. if you can cut down close to 2.0 or better, you will hit mid 14s for sure. But adding exhaust and all the other garbage on an NA car doesnt really give much of a performance for these cars, so why bother, except make the car louder and what not. Not add a downpipe on a turbo car will get an instant 50-60 hp gain for sure. Dropping the car 2" is for sure gonna hurt your launching if not killing your 60ft. you probably have stiffer springs or lower suspension for looks and not 1/4 is all about. you want to have a soft suspension and load on the front to help traction and in your case, it will be the opposite. Thats why there are drag setups and road coarse setups and they are totally different, its hard to do both well. Good luck

I dont get something, I agree with everything you said BUT the part about soft springs doesn't apply to a FWD platform. You're saying to have soft springs and "load the front"- why not just have stiff springs?

I have stiff springs (Sprints) and AGX adjustable struts. When I used to go to the track I'd set the struts to full stiff. The front would not raise at all, and the rear would not dive, perfect for the track (in a FWD platform). If I had soft springs the front would raise like a plane and the rear would squat because of the rearward weight transfer, what good is that on a FWD?

RWD on the other hand, that is exactly what one wants

arcpolo · 02-22-2009, 12:37 AM

Sorry, I was refering my comments on a RWD setup. I came from a RWD setup, sorry if that was misleading.

96blkonblkse · 02-22-2009, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcpolo

I guess FWD car is harder to launch and get traction unless you have some sticky tires up front. 1/4 mile is all about launching. 60 ft is where it is at. if you can cut down close to 2.0 or better, you will hit mid 14s for sure. But adding exhaust and all the other garbage on an NA car doesnt really give much of a performance for these cars, so why bother, except make the car louder and what not. Not add a downpipe on a turbo car will get an instant 50-60 hp gain for sure. Dropping the car 2" is for sure gonna hurt your launching if not killing your 60ft. you probably have stiffer springs or lower suspension for looks and not 1/4 is all about. you want to have a soft suspension and load on the front to help traction and in your case, it will be the opposite. Thats why there are drag setups and road coarse setups and they are totally different, its hard to do both well. Good luck

While i definately agree on how exhaust setups on NA cars do not give nearly the gains they do on a boosted car, 75% of all the gains you'll ever see on a maxima NA will come from headers/y-pipe, next would be an 00vi/mevi. Everything else is supplementary, but rwd is a much better platform.

Stiff all around seems to be the best setup for me and others. Tokico blues + eibachs gave me nothing but wheel hop and bad 60fts at the track, my coilovers have helped ALOT. Combined with ES bushings all around helps incredibly too!

Again to the OP, its experience. I think your shifting may have played a role, combine that with a clutch that was slipping could have hurt your post 1/8th mile times. Just keep hitting up the track, test out different techniques for launching. For me NA my best times were from a 2800-2900rpm quick slip with my streets. they were sticky so i could get hard on the throttle while i was still feathering the clutch. When i ran with ET streets i was more at the 4500rpm range. Didnt want to destroy my tranny lol

**Nealoc187** · 02-22-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcpolo

Sorry, I was refering my comments on a RWD setup. I came from a RWD setup, sorry if that was misleading.

Why would you be telling him what to do with an RWD car when he drives a maxima...?

arcpolo · 02-22-2009, 11:02 AM

Sorry for my org. comment. I was just trying to say to get good 1/4 mile time, its all about the launching, its not rocket science.

HowlerMonkey · 02-27-2009, 11:34 PM

How long did you let the car cool before running it?

A hot soak kills drag times.

Best to let it cool such that all manifolding is almost dead cold and then only run it long enough to get the the longblock up to temp. but short enough that the entire intake system is still damn cold.

I was there last week and it seems the concrete launch pad is not quite ready for good launches.

My car puts like 120hp to the wheels and it did not hook up well at all for a rear driver but I did see some hondas without wheelie bars get into the 9s but they were spinning like crazy.

The 100,000 mile cap,rotor and wires along with the 50,000 mile standard plugs limited my usable revs by 1000rpms.

15.8