grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I did get there - made four passes to begin testing the car - here are the details and I would appreciate comments. Some things don't make sense to me, like the first 1/8 mile times... Shifts were hard and precise - a cough from hitting fuel cut at each shift.

#1 - 23/12/15 Hoosier track tires mounted. Sprayed 50-shot only, from launch. Tranny shifter set to 6400 RPM - N2O spray limiter set to 3,000-6400.

R/T .160
60' 2.223
330 5.983
1/8 9.013
MPH 80.76
1000 11.668

1/4 13.876
MPH 102.41

#2 - Hoosiers still mounted. Sprayed 50-shot in first gear, total 125-shot in 2nd and 3rd gears. All limiters set as above. Car drifted around in second and third gear. Hoosiers are out.

R/T .044
60' 2.205
330 5.926
1/8 8.856
MPH 83.90
1000 11.366

1/4 13.456
MPH 110.17

#3 - mounted 23/8.5/15 M&H slicks at 20psi instead. Lowered N2O limiter to 2900. Sprayed both stages in all gears. Tire spin in 1st and 2nd gears.

R/T .396
60' 2.189
330 5.816
1/8 8.700
MPH 84.88
1000 11.180

1/4 13.254
MPH 110.82

#4 - still with M&H slicks. Lowered N2O lower limit to 2800 and tried to get into both stages immediately. Tire spin 1st and 2nd gears

R/T .116
60' 2.130
330 5.765
1/8 8.658
MPH 84.81
1000 11.137

1/4 13.209
MPH 110.87

The car runs strong and is consistent - I feel I have traction problems, and I want to raise the nitrous to 75-shot plus 75-shot next time out. That should give me a good feel for what to do next. I may order the M&H 26/8.5/15 slicks, or the 26/10/15 version - don't know yet....

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

grey glad to see you got to make it out there!!

the times definitly aren't what i was expecting as i'm sure you are thinking too. i figured your slicks would hook better than that! track prep not the best that night? the traps are definatly good for 12's though!! good runs none the less!! what did you run 1/8th mile with your 3.0??

time for bigger slicks!! haha

edit:...found your old time slip. i figure good traction will get you equal or better than 8.3....but you made the 3.5 to breathe..3.0 was better for more grunt off the line you think? ..think that might be why the 1/8 isn't so fast? your hauling in the 1/4 though

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Damn you trapped 4mph more than me but i ran a 13.0. You have 12's there trust me.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I think so, but it's gonna take some tweaks to make it happen.

One thing that really struck me was that the last three passes had nearly identical trap MPH - but ET was progressively quicker.


The first 1/8 mile was slower than it should be - I suspect the nitrous wasn't kicking in early enough because there is some delay in the circuits - that will take some work and logging on the PLX wideband to see what's happening. Nitrous timing, nitrous amounts, slicks - all need a closer look. Actual track time is very important!

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

Traction=12 sec slip

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

So what's the best choice of M&Hs to "get some"?

24/8.5/15, 26/8.5/15, 26/10/15 or 26/12/15 ??? I'm thinking the 26/10/15 tires feel about right...

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

20 psi is too high for slicks. And I think you may need taller slicks. Try dropping the pressure to 15-16psi and work your way down till the 60 foot doesn't improve.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

I wouldn't go to taller slicks yet, drop the pressure like SonicDust suggests. I run mine between 9-12 psi.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

^ like stated above 20psi is too much, plus if I remember correctly you are using roadracing slicks which are a harder compund than normally used for drag racing.

I think the size is fine but 26's will hold alittle more power off the line, a nice burnout with lower tire psi and do not bring in the 2nd stage till the top of 1st

yeah get those 60ft's down and your good to go, slicks should = sub 2.060fts

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

20psi in the slicks will do that to you. That's twice as much pressure as you want. Drop it to like 13psi next time and then each pass take a half a PSI out until your traps start to go down or your ET stops dropping. You'll end up between 9 and 12 like jime said. I always found 11psi to be my sweet spot.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I ran the first two passes with the 12" track Hoosiers - because I never used them before - at 20 psi - then decided to ditch them and mount the M&Hs. They were at 20 psi as well. The Hoosiers actually worked pretty well - but would be better on a NA car. Nitrous makes funny bumps in your torque curve, you know.

Since the 10PM curfew was coming up, I just played with the nitrous window and sprayed both stages in first gear. It got a little quicker, but I didn't have time to try lower tire pressures. I never had much luck with even 15psi - the slicks wrap up around the wheel and steer funny.

Track prep wasn't anything special - and the staging area was at 115*F at 6PM. It did cool later - after 8PM, but still very humid. In first gear you could feel the car drift some, and there was a small mountain of tire rubber in the launch area. They didn't scrape it off all night - or spray VHT.

Before I think about tires, I gotta pull the PLX data logs and see (besides the A/F) what RPM I was at going through the traps. I think I have two passes logged.

I think the collective mind here is correct - lower the tire pressure and measure what happens. Plus I'll bump the shot-levels up a notch or two - maybe 150 combined, maybe 175-shot. I just pulled the front plugs and they looked identical to the dyno photos - all good.

Yesterday was a long and expensive day, but well worth it - the car screams through the traps now. The Land Shark is getting some teeth!

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

Since I have never ran with slicks.....
I honestly would be taking a wild guess

QNO_A32

iTrader: (7)

good stuff and yeah slicks should = < 2.0 60ft times.....
in for the 12 second slip......VIDEO????????

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

no pix, no videos.... no time.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Here are the graphs from the first two runs - lots of 2nd gear wheelspin in the second graph..
You can see the Shift_Fast_3 shifting 1-2 and 2-3 clearly - both the RPM and AF graph twitch hard.

This is the 50-shot pass:



This was 50-shot in first, 125-shot in 2nd and 3rd gears. With the 12-inch Hoosiers, spinning lots in 2nd gear - look at the graph. Trap RPM was 6329 - kinda close to fuel cut. A/F was good at 125-shot.



I think I may try a larger slick....

Dave B

Hey Grey-

I'm glad to see you're still running the Max. The car is running damn good, especially for the warmer temps. I'm heading to KCIR this Wednesday for some runs because I want to see just how much heat influences my VQ35 and I want to try some new launch techniques.

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

grey, from personal experience i don't think you need new slicks. just run closer to 11ish psi. and do a good burnout through the water box. i say this because last night my slicks made a world a difference from being 11psi or 20 psi, with a good burnout or not.

fourthchirpin

20psi on slicks.... are a bit much. i say drop the tire pressure. I think u can crack 12's ez.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Good - if you can figure how to launch the Shark, I'll buy the beer - especially LandShark Lager !!!

I just got back from KCIR - at the Sunday Import Shootout, better known as the Honda Lovefest. Only saw three Nissans there (350Z, 240SX, 300ZXTT), and well they were either slow or broken. Bummer...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

You're just saying that so you don't hurt my feelings, since your car is now pretty dang quick....

I took photos of a bunch of 10-sec turbo cars at KCIR today, and most had MT or M&H slicks with about 3 psi. I'm gonna post the photos' links when they finish uploading.

By the way, congrats - I saw your thread from earlier. Pretty darn good job, bud..

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Saw these slicks today at KCIR - seems like lower pressures are the way to go. Oh - these are all 10-sec cars today.





http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0432.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0433.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0435.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0427.jpg

Plus some Lambo doors for comic relief..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0425.jpg

Also ran into my buddy with the 11-sec 2.4 L AWD Eagle talon - he's now dynoing 606 WHP on a AWD dyno, which are rare around here. He was carefully tuning the car today, so nothing outstanding, but I ran against him when he did a 11.27 ET. I keep that slip in the garage. The other RWD EagleTalon there today has about 750WHP, he said. Busy day - 10sec Hondas and 9-sec bikes. Whew..

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

hahaha...thanks bro! my cars got more in it though

dang! 3psi seems low! but youll see what we mean when you run 10-11 psi!! its crazy

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Oh, I've tried that before ( 11-15 psi) and the car felt unstable, so I upped it to 18, where I set my PB of 1.918 with the 3.0 .... I think there's more to my launch problem than tire psi, but I'm still thinking it over. Like exactly when the nitrous is sprayed on launch. I'm thinking it starts too late. My Shift_Fast_3 is set too high as well - on the 1-2 shift, and especially on the 2-3 shift, there is a lot of sputtering when the engine hits fuel-cut before the shift is complete. I'm thinking to set the shift points down until I don't get the sputter, and keep the nitrous-cut just below the shift point so the tranny completes the shift quickly. This Thursday, at Heartland Park T-n-T day, I think.

Like those pix of 10-sec-car slicks? Now that's low tire pressure - too low for me, anyway. The wheels are all drilled for screws, if you look closely. But man, they launched hard and still kept the tires on the rims!

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

what 60's did you get when you tried 11-15? if you think your nitrous is kicking in too late then how early is it SAFE to kick in at?

thanks for posting those pics...i can't imagine running 3 psi!! someday we might NEED to do that haha


i posted a video of my car on my thread if you want to see it

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

What 60's? heck, I don't remember - that's been - say 2 years ago - when I was doing the 3.0 on nitrous dual-shot. 2.0xx, I think.. I can kick it in at 2700 if needed - the first stage, then the second stage, still in first gear, is the plan. It's all in the timing - I stall up to 2800 at the light, then go WOT and spray in the last yellow. Any time delay in this sequence slows the 60' time. Since the Shift_Fast_3 shifts were slower (OK, the tranny is slower to shift) than expected, I was hitting fuel cut just when the nitrous was cut off, but the tranny takes a little time to actually shift and drop RPMs back to where spray starts up again. This is lost time when accelerating - I gotta get things dialed in better. The second PLX graph shows all this.

Nice video - hey, that's a nice track, and plenty of serious cars were running. If NHRA makes the really fast boys run 1000' now, then you fit right in.

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

i bet if you get those slicks psi down and spray nitrous sooner we'll see some low 1.9's maybe a 1.8 ??

so nitrous is safe to kick in at 2700?? i might try it sooner the better possibly! haha

yeah there are some freakin fast people that run out at that track...after watching that video i realized i need to fix the loose connection i have on my brake light! haha.

what exactly caused the tranny to shutter?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, when in first gear, you can spray below 3000 - maybe down to 2500 - especially a 75-shot. As long as the engine can rev up quickly, it works.

My tranny controller was behind on shift timing - I was hitting rev limiter before the tranny was able to shift, so there was a considerable delay there. I lowered the shift point to 6300 with the idea that the transmission will complete the shift before fuel cut. I changed nitrous cut to 6300 as well.

I took a closer look at the 2nd PLX log file, and I notice that stall RPM is now 3000, not 2800. I went out last night and verified that with the MSD 8669 switches in the cabin. Must be the extra torque from the 3.5, since the custom Edge TC is built for 2800 on a 3.0... If it don't rain, I'll get this sorted out on Thursday at HPT.

"It's alway something"

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

yeah engine size and vehicle weight will change your stall point, thats why companies will give you a range of around 200-400rpms when quoting a tc

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

wow...for some reason i had in my head that you can't....shouldn't spray below 3000...but if i can spray closer to 2500 then i will definitely do that.

can't wait to see what you run after you tune it all up!!

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

when I was a auto I sprayed a 55shot at 1800rpms and 75 at 2500rpms and 100 at around 2500 to 2800 depending on traction

like grey said long as the engine is free reving and you do not eceed the tq limits you're ok

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

well traction won't be a problem.....so are you saying that it might be possible for me to start in the low 2000's?? would manual tranny and automatic make a difference on when you can start spraying?

i have manual tranny...lightened flywheel...00vi...exhaust cutout... that free reving enough?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Spray starting at 2500 - and sell tickets !

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I do not think you'll get any traction spraying a 75shot with a 5-speed at 2500rpms

it will make for a good smoke show

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

That's why "sell tickets" , but ... if you use these slicks

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0433.jpg
pushed by this:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0434.jpg

then you can launch a 800-hp turboed 5-spd Honda with a maxed-out two-step running with a fully spun-up turbo. This is an awesome sight - BAM - a 10sec 1/4 mile.. I watched an hour of this on Sunday... that and all the girls..

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

i can't imagine 10's ....


ok....well i will try 2500 and see what happens ....i know i'm pushing it but can i go lower?...well let me rephrase that....IF traction wasn't a problem...what would the lowest rpm yall would let it start spraying at?

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

I agree from my own personal experience....lol
I was spraying @ 3500 rpms in this vid. 75 wet shot/mevi p&p LIM / y-pipe/ 245/50/16 tires



Looks like we all have the power for a 12 sec slip.
Now we just need the traction.

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

woah woah woah.....

what setup you have in that video? that's crazy

Jime

iTrader: (10)

[quote=one_fast_max;6599551can i go lower?...well let me rephrase that....IF traction wasn't a problem...what would the lowest rpm yall would let it start spraying at?[/quote]

I have always sprayed right out of hole regardless of rpm. As soon as the throttle hits WOT its on, I have never used a window switch for nitrous even though I have one.

The only reason all the experts say not to spray at low rpm is that the rpms will not rise quickly in any other gear than 1st and that will definately cause problems. However in 1st it's almost instantaneous and the only reason not to do it is traction.

one_fast_max

iTrader: (4)

thanks jime! that makes sense! next time out i will definitely give it a try and see how low i can get it to start spraying

when you going to spray the 200???

Jime

iTrader: (10)

Mid Oct after my last race. I should have it all setup by then. Was speaking to tech guys at the track sunday and they will look the other way for the day if i run under 11.49.